tankless water heater

[Ken]

Does anyone use tankless water heater in hard water area?
Can I use them and keep my original heater with tank?

[Rondo]

Ken, since I'am a defender of tankless heaters for there price, I just had a friend buy a Natco Super E with a 80 gallon tank for $3500.00 you may want to look at one of these tanks. When I installed my Tagaki's the price I was getting for the 80 gallon Natco was $5500.00 - 7000.00.

Ken, Ultracade is back up and running and offering new game packs and in a few months their saleing single game packs. ( Pacman, Ms Packman etc.,

[Anonymous]

I think the Natco Super-E is a much better option, but I might be biased as I have two of them.

[pete f]

I have paloma in a hard water area, only 2 years old so can not say much yet, no problems thus far.

[Ken]

I am going to try one since they are cheap,when I was in Asia , every water heater is tankless because nobody have space for a large tank.
I know Ultracade in back in biz,the eginner bought the company back from the maker.They finally have some good quality game, only good game in the $599's new game kit is MsPacman.As I said before,it is good system but not a lot good games.
I like to put game $200-1000 in stores,when they get bet up,I won't feel bad.

[Andy]

I had four paloma units each producing ~179k btu, that recirculated into an 800 gallon storage tank. When the tank temp dropped below my chosen value the pump turned on thus firing up the palomas. The problem, during busy hours at the mat, the hot water in the tank is being consumed at a higher rate than it is being produced. Of course I could have added more units, I think I would have needed about six units. The amount of piping and space six units uses, imo is not the right way to go. I think for a small mat these types of units would be just fine, but not for a large mat. You really have to look at your application. installation space, $$, max demand... Do you really have special challanges?

[Anonymous]

The purpose of those instant toys is to avoid the losses that you have with a storage tank (or so the mfg claims). Thus, to hook them up with such a large storage tank unfortunately gives you the worst of both technologies. You would be much better off with a high eff high recovery heater with a small storage tank.

[Rondo]

Ken, on the Ultracade my customers are finding $300 a month worth of good games of the 86 installed. I don't know much about the games, they kind of drive me nuts. Now on my other store I plan on throwing out my game vendor and buy a pinball and standup game. Which of these games would be winners in your oppinion. Simpsons pinball, Austin Powers, South Park or Roller Coaster Tycoon? If not one of these what would you buy? I have no problem buying new when buying a pinball. What stand up game would you buy to compliment the Ultacade so I could switch them between the two stores?

[Andy]

Kirby,
My point exactly. With my application I would have needed at least six units. The amount of plumbing necessary to bring all of these units online imo is obscene. With the amount of time, money and the effort necessary to make it work, I beleive a single boiler/storage tank system is superior. For applications that could be satisfied with four or less units, the tankless water heaters can be a viable.

[Ken]

I am still going to try one since the store is small and I don't want to put too much money in there.

Rondo,as long as the Ultracde make money for you,it is good machine.I make about the same money with 1,2 quality games, cost me under $1200.I can change game myself in a few mins.
I won't put pinball in Laundromat because require a lot upkeep and they are not cheap.Stern is the only company still making Pinball in USA.If you want to put a pin in your store,the new Simpon made by Stern will be my choice.Dataeast also made a Simpon pinball 9,10 years ago,don't buy the Data east one!
I am cheap,I won't pay $3000-4000 for a game or pinball.
I like to put MsPac,Galaga or Neo-Geo in my store.

[anonymous]

Do you think that a single Takagi T-K2 is big enough to run a small mat with:
-10 Speedqueen toploaders 18#
-1 Speedqueen tripleload frontloader
-1 Wascomat Senior W125

it has 6.9 GPM flow rate, or would the T-M1 at 9.6 GPM be more appropriate?

[Anonymous]

If your two triple load machines alone ran at the same time they would draw a total of roughly 140 gallons of water. Assuming you have 5 fills that is 28 gallons per fill. I assume your machines fill in less than three minutes, otherwise your customers would be fairly pissed off at you because the total cycle time would be comprised of waiting 15 minutes for water alone.

Thus, one of your T-M1 units would barely keep up with just your two triples running at 3 minutes per fill. If they fill faster than that, and I expect they will, the units will not be able to keep up.

Once you start using tops also the tankless cannot possible meet your needs without a storage tank.

[anonymous]

I am having a hard time finding information on the internet that will give me a real case senario of using these tankless wonders in a mat. They all mention the usability in laundry mats but have absolutely no case senarios for examples.

Also, what are your thoughts on electric vs. LP?

[Anonymous]

There is only one way (that I know of) to incur greater cost in generating heat than using electricity - that method is to physically burn dollar bills as a form of heat generation. Electric heating is crazy.

[Lar Hylobates]

Reign,

you should also keep in mind those fill rates are for a particular rise in temperature. Your rise needs may ans are probably worse than these projections.

I did some research months back and only figured about 5 gpm per unit and I am in Southern Cal...our water is already hot.

Incidentally, I finally concluded that 22 units manifolded top and bottom would fit down the side of a 50' wall and provide plenty of water for my mat.

[Ken]

Call Wentech,their tech will tell you how many heater /btu you need.