New Presidential $1 Coin

[PeterH]

With the advent of the new presidential $1 coins, will you be doing anything different in your stores?

[KJD]

Until people start carrying them in their pockets I will do nothing. As I have said in the past a dollar coin will never work unless the paper dollar is taken away.
I think it is another ploy for the US Mint to make money on the collectors

[Clothes_Tyme]

I will do nothing until the paper dollar is erradicated. I guess my customers will have to change their dollar coins into paper dollars elsewhere.

[pete f]

I won't do a thing either. The biggest problem is accepting them in my machines. The cost to convert some coin mechs is almost as much as a card reader. Then you need a changer that dispenes dual coin, then you have to sort it! I am keen on Set O Matics' credit card swipe, that makes much more sense to me. I will be looking for that in Vegas.

[DirtyLaundry]

It doesn't make sense to change anything unless this $1 coin is accepted and used by the general public. They've tried introducing $1 coins in the past, and people have not accepted them. It would be beneficial to the vending industry to have a dollar coin that is accepted by the public, as there would be less quarters to collect and count, or start putting $1 bill acceptors on laundry equipment like they have on all beverage, coffee, and snack machines. I originally liked the idea of credit card readers, but I don't think that poor people qualify to get credit cards.

[hithere]

It doesn't make sense to change anything unless this $1 coin is accepted and used by the general public. They've tried introducing $1 coins in the past, and people have not accepted them. It would be beneficial to the vending industry to have a dollar coin that is accepted by the public, as there would be less quarters to collect and count, or start putting $1 bill acceptors on laundry equipment like they have on all beverage, coffee, and snack machines. I originally liked the idea of credit card readers, but I don't think that poor people qualify to get credit cards.


why manufacturer not making $1 bill acceptor in washer?
in other words, it's more easy for both customer and us if washer machine can accept both quaters and $1 paper bill together, right?

[Clothes_Tyme]

I originally liked the idea of credit card readers, but I don't think that poor people qualify to get credit cards.

You would be surprised of the amount of poor people that have credit cards (another trap to keep them poor). I think you mean people who are at the poverty level.

However, there are many cases where people use their combo credit/atm (debit) card for purchases. Depending on where they work and perhaps where they bank sometimes they do not have a choice but to have a debit card because of direct deposit, and in that case they can use the card in the card reader like a credit card.

[Monarch]

"why manufacturer not making $1 bill acceptor in washer?
in other words, it's more easy for both customer and us if washer machine can accept both quaters and $1 paper bill together, right?"

Right!! Bill validators take up a lot of room. the Stacker which accumulates the bills takes up even more. Bill Validators cost an OEM $120 each and retail for more. At least good ones will. And I have problems with operators crying when they hear that push/pull mechanism cost $30 or so!

No current machine in production has room for the device so that means the manufacturer would have to retool to produce a machine that can accept all this. So it would be a much more expensive machine. Who will pay for a machine that costs that much more, but the only difference is it takes bills instead of coins?

And you think you have problems with people breaking into coin boxes for quarters? Just imaging if there were stacks of bills in there!! Theives would be fighting each other for the chance to break your machines.

Who will pay for the added expense of such a machine when they could still get by with what is currently produced? If you're going to spend that kind of money, then you would be better off with a card. At least the money is all in one spot that way and more easiy protected.

Sorry, this is NOT a good idea for a lot more reasons than I have put here.

As to the new presidential dollar coin - Yawn!! so what. As the others have said, until the one dollar bills are out of circulation, the coins will go no where. Just another gimick for the mint to make some bucks.

Norman

[laundryboy]

The most I would do is add a changer that dispenses 4 quarters for the $1 coin.

[TLR]

Even when they make the Presidential $ - how do we - the public - know they are goping to distribute enough of them to the public to get into circulation and be used. Out of all 5-6 years of production of the SAK..... dollar - they only put 1 of the 3 mint's production for the first year made - into circulation - or something like that - and all the rest of the following years production of the the 3 mints were held out of circulation - just lieing in a big vault somewhere.

TLR

[Monarch]

The mints all made the coins. They made MILLIONS of them! They sent them to the fed banks, who sent them to all the local banks. Who put them in THEIR vaults and told people they didn't have any. Then they sat on them for six months and sent them back to the Feds saying the people don't want them. The banks have very expensive systems to count existing coins and bills. They don't want to have redo all that equipment. So they don't put them into circulatoin even if they have them in the vault. I was told this by tellers at two different banks. THis is another reason why the paper dollar needs to go away.

Norm

[Winston]

If something is to be eliminated it should be the penny and/or the ten dollar bill. Who needs a ten? One five, two fives, three fives... twenty. As for pennies, round up or down to the nearest nickel: 10, 11, 12 = 10 . . . 13, 14, 15 = 15. Any item that cost 1 or 2 cents would be 2 or 3 for a nickel. It now costs the mint more than a penny to make a penny.

[mjwalsh]

We have dispensed the dollar coins since the year 2000 with the intentions of updating the equipment. We have both car wash & laundry. The car wash side would be straight forward & affordable. What held us back? The overwhelming number of Susan B's mixed with the Sacs was a major factor. The manufacturers inability to have affordable coin mechs that fit dimensionally for the laundry side another major factor. The customers definitely appreciate being able to not have to handle 80 quarters for a 20 dollar bill exchange. Not having to fumble with 10 plus quarters to start a larger washer is something the customer will also appreciate.

The President coins now are a whole new ballgame. The legislation has written inside of it guaranteed availability for over 11 years. I was told at a public forum at our state capital about 6 months with the mint director & his assistant presenting that the Susan B's are no longer in that oversupply situation.

The customers definitely use the Sacs for the machines that we have set up to take them such as the soap machine, internet kiosk, pop, candy & other vending machine etc. The quicker we can it add that capability affordably to the laundry equipment the better.

I don't see changing over to dollar coins that high of risk because after ten years if we go with the right kind of acceptors we can then convert the acceptors to tokens in place of dollar coins. That is a very unlikely situation because I am sure the customers will prefer the dollar coins over tokens or prebought cards.

This is not something to be done on a whim because each operator has to understand what is the best fit for his or her area. There are pluses & minuses for every system including credit card type of systems. If we find ways to accept the multiple coins in an affordable way on the laundry side I think the new President Coins tip the scale for me & others with a similar setup.

[Walter]

mjwalsh,

Not taking issue with anything you're saying, but still for me, the big thing would be a reliable multi-coin drop that would accept QUARTERS & DIMES. This would allow coin-based mat owners the ability to increment vend prices on a graduated basis...

Walter

[daddy4ever]

Until people start carrying them in their pockets I will do nothing. As I have said in the past a dollar coin will never work unless the paper dollar is taken away.
I think it is another ploy for the US Mint to make money on the collectors
Sometimes I like to be proactive, but I have to agree with KJD.
This time I will be reactive.

[mjwalsh]

The ability to increment between dollar coins, dollar tokens, & quarters seems to make the most sense & feasible for most of us. As far as a quarter jump that is what we tend to need to do anyway. If it is too much of an increase we can offset it by something so I don't see the card or dime increment being the deciding factor on who attracts the most customers. The tokens option on the coin drop would help so we would have the option of a credit card to token machine then. Especially if the decision makers at Standard ChangeMakers would allow a retrofit on their highest end 600 Series of changers. It would be very sensible because most of us laundry people have wall space issues. In my opinion, it would speed this needed change up.

Tokens could play a role in promotion, refunds, satisfy the credit card crowd & we would gain some security wise too. A mix of none real money would be less attractive to thieves too. A higher end coin counter that handshakes over to the computer such as the Cummins 2000 gets the labor & record keeping similar to a card system for a lot less money & possibly maintenance - dependency wise too. It seems like one or two dedicated economical PLCs (programmable logic controllers) like they use in car washes could branch out & serve as a cycle counter or coin counter & it could be ethernet based to again handshake over to a relatively simple database program.

If some of you would hurry up & help me lobby Standard ChangeMakers this could be a reality & a real lifesaver for a significant portion of us operators.

[pete f]

The ability to increment between dollar coins, dollar tokens, & quarters seems to make the most sense & feasible for most of us. As far as a quarter jump that is what we tend to need to do anyway. If it is too much of an increase we can offset it by something so I don't see the card or dime increment being the deciding factor on who attracts the most customers. The tokens option on the coin drop would help so we would have the option of a credit card to token machine then. Especially if the decision makers at Standard ChangeMakers would allow a retrofit on their highest end 600 Series of changers. It would be very sensible because most of us laundry people have wall space issues. In my opinion, it would speed this needed change up.

Tokens could play a role in promotion, refunds, satisfy the credit card crowd & we would gain some security wise too. A mix of none real money would be less attractive to thieves too. A higher end coin counter that handshakes over to the computer such as the Cummins 2000 gets the labor & record keeping similar to a card system for a lot less money & possibly maintenance - dependency wise too. It seems like one or two dedicated economical PLCs (programmable logic controllers) like they use in car washes could branch out & serve as a cycle counter or coin counter & it could be ethernet based to again handshake over to a relatively simple database program.

If some of you would hurry up & help me lobby Standard ChangeMakers this could be a reality & a real lifesaver for a significant portion of us operators.


It is not Standard, it is a an overall availability of multi coin acceptors for most brands of washesr that is lacking. American Changer has a changer set up for credit card/token. I think the Set O Matic swipes are starting to make alot more sense.

[KJD]

Looks like the new $1 coin comes out thursday.

Or should I say the same coin different picture.

[mjwalsh]

It is not Standard, it is a an overall availability of multi coin acceptors for most brands of washesr that is lacking. American Changer has a changer set up for credit card/token. I think the Set O Matic swipes are starting to make alot more sense.

Pete F,

The reason why I mentioned Standard is because I am a smaller laundry - car wash operator & it would be so much better to utilize the existing 2 changers with retrofit kits. We may be adding a 3rd changer & we have a spare verifier too so that would make 3 or 4 retrofit kits. All the verifiers have the neat new more memory compact disk so I do not see the obstacles being that great. It would be pretty major for us to go to a completely new brand given our existing base. If I remember right I was told they have already done the combo bill & credit card changer on the 600 series but discontinued because of lack of interest by us sleeping operators. I believe this was before credit cards had become quite as prevalent as they have grown in the last few years.

The 3 coin multicoin mechanism are on their way. I think there is a opportunity for the changer manufacturers to help our industry by giving us another option besides a swipe on every machine. I use credit cards all the time at various stores & gas stations etc. & they sometimes have to be swiped several times to finally work so I am not so sure 50 plus of them would be better than 50 plus dollar coin, dollar token, & quarter multicoin mechs.

Don't you see, if one segment of manufacturers do proceed it is more likely the multicoin mech manufacturers will also proceed. They should at least have a meeting of the minds & commit so that they will proceed together so they both show up when we start flooding them with orders. All it takes is a few of us leading the way & success occuring in a few cities with a much less investment than a retrofitted card store leaving the customer with all the payment options & being more customer friendly than a card store.

I am aware of dedicated credit card to token machines by Standard, Rowe, American, & I believe Hamilton also. The issue is that the biggest market of all for them would be us coin op laundry owners not the exhausted car wash & golf club houses. We have to let them know that the retrofit ability solves wall space issues which could tip the scale in terms of using tokens as the vehicle for the customer to use credit cards vs the less practical hog wild swipe on every machine possibility.

I checked into the Set O Matic & it appeares the credit card to token & multicoin makes more sense than Set O Matic. That collecting the data at each machine seems to be less practical than the credit card to token capability.

It does hinge on a better multi coin mechanism than Set O Matic's coin mechanism & one that fits older machines to make this work. Hopefully, I can get back to Coinwash within a month or so to let you know about a coin mech that should work out & is more affordable. The manufacturer is still in the development stage so I don't think they want to get flooded with too many calls as yet. I was told the engineering issues for their heights & pulse lengths etc have been resolved.

[Amex]

You would be surprised of the amount of poor people that have credit cards (another trap to keep them poor). I think you mean people who are at the poverty level.

However, there are many cases where people use their combo credit/atm (debit) card for purchases. Depending on where they work and perhaps where they bank sometimes they do not have a choice but to have a debit card because of direct deposit, and in that case they can use the card in the card reader like a credit card.

"(another trap to keep them poor)" Who is trying to keep people poor? Get real.

[mjwalsh]

If we go too hog wild with individual card swipes, we might be more at risk than "the poor" considering the per transaction fees & percentage fees. This is while the credit & bank card users get the "cash rewards" & the "frequent flyer miles rewards". I do see the bank cards potentially helping "the poor" manage their spending information though.

Having said that, I am listening to people who have suggested that too much information such as what the "in house card store crowd" tout..... can be a distraction if it is not utilized in a worthwhile way. The same information can be extracted by separating the counts & automatically (via counter) or manually entering the amounts into a relatively simple database or a tailored "Quickbooks" software. Reports can be automatically generated at a mouse click same as in the "card reader software" at a lot less cost. We really don't gain that much by having the software telling us about the receipts in a specific isolated machine because we can see the pattern just by observing as we take out the coins. The location of the machine within the store is usually the driving force there. Customer communication makes a lot more sense than having the software tell us no receipts for the day on that specific machine. Besides, it has been mentioned many times that card stores tend to need to be fully attended.

I honestly think & feel the laundry operators who do not want to give the "dollar coin" & the very likely potential of more affordable & better quality multi-coin drops a fair chance are shooting themselves in the foot. The quarter look alike Susan B & the unavailable Sacagawea was not a fair chance. Both of those problems have been addressed by written law which wasn't the case before.

Please go to my "affordable multicoin option" poll on this board if you have not voted "yes" yet & see if we can't nudge some very capable OEM manufacturers in the direction of allowing us to have another worthwhile option besides just our existing "coin slides" & "in house cards"

I have another similar poll over at the CLA's forum named "Payment Options" where a "yes" could also be helpful. Since Coinwash is not too proud to show up at the partially CLA sponsored "Cleanshow" I think we will be OK with some common ground.

[pete f]

I will remind you I have an unattended card store, and out of 4 stores it is the highest volume one. Sure, I get a call once in awhile, someone can not read, so they have trouble, but over all, it works quite well. You maybe should look into the brand of card I used, very reasonable to install and quite simple to use.
That aside, I admire your persistance to force change amoung the suppliers.

[mjwalsh]

Pete F,

For certain areas the in house card is probably the best fit such as for that particular store. Does it also take credit & bank cards at the main console to recharge the customer's in house magnetic card? Do you really want fewer potential options for your other 3 stores that you haven't totally settled in with on a specific futuristic payment option as yet?

I appreciate the consideration.

I honestly am trying to base this effort on my actual experience with my 6 bay coin op car wash & fellow operators experiences in that industry.

[Monarch]

For many years we have produced the push pull style coin acceptor that takes 5 x $1 and 3 x 25 cent. We have sold these for Canadian customers for years, and make the same configuration for US coins. The problems have been:
1. Poor availabilty of the $1 coin.
2. Operators who do not wish to deal with more than one size coin.
3. Lack of changers that vend both coins. I know American Changer Corp has them, but this is a double hopper machine (of course!) and on the high end of their model line. Operators are not willing to pay the cost.
4. We do the push pull style, but not drop mechs. Other than Imonex I know of no one producing a drop mech that is double coin. And even theirs will not fit all models in the field.

FYI, I received and email this morning from Erin Bray, at a marketing arm of the US Mint. He wants to set up some kind of confernce call with us to discuss how we may better respond to the introduction of the new dollar coin.
I had already responded to his first inquiry. It had included an article noting the introduction of the new coin, and I sent back to him as follows (there was some other points too, but this is what is germain to this post)

"The area of the article you have highlighted has following it a paragraph that says why this is doomed to fail. Until the dollar bill is gone and the banking industry and the public have been compelled to accept the dollar coin, we will see no progress in seeing it accepted. We devoted quite a bit of energy and expense to promote the Sacajewa Dollar. We will not waste our time again."

He still want to talk with us. What should I tell him?

Norman

[mjwalsh]

Monarch-Norman,

Erin should be given the authority to somehow prevent banks from selectively punishing the customers like us who are actually trying to get the dollar coins in use for commerce. There is no question the banks were part of the problem with the failure of the Sacagaweas. Now that there supposedly are very few Susan B's--- hopefully--- the banks will shape up & do their part in making sure that they are not an impediment. There is a segment of the population that is almost militant when it comes to wanting & forcing a cashless society. A too little cash society could have unforeseen serious consequences as far as I am concerned. In my opinion, cash allows us Americans more freedom & our ability to facilitate commerce. I am not talking about irresponsible type of freedom either. If there was some way to guarantee that the credit card power structure would not abuse their extra power at some point in the future it wouldn't be so horrible.

I was at a town house meeting at our state capitol last fall & the acting director of the U.S. Mint made it clear the new President coins were primarily for commerce & coin collecting was secondary. His name was Dave LaClerc if I remember right. He did say the Reserve had more power than them & of course the U.S. Treasury is over the Reserve. There does need to be some healthy accountability.

[kbc747]

Once again all you have to do is look North for leadershp guys, we have been doing it for 20+ years now with a dollar and even a 2 dollar coin. Just spent a month in the US and dang I hate your dollar, give me a coin any day of the week. As for changers we have the Standard and it can be set for any configuration of dollars and quaters and works great(it acepts, 1,5,10 or 20 dollar bills). As for coin drops we use Monarch as it is a great system. As for newer machines they all have dual drops one for quaters and one for dollars. New Dexter dryers came with electronic drops and in one slot we can accept quaters, dollars and 2 dollar coins. So all the technology is here and perfected you just have to install it and count less coins more DOLLARS! But the best advantage of all is my deposit to the bank is 95% 5, 10 and 20 dollar bills not the back breaking sack of coins it used to be years gone by.

P.S. all vending machines in Canada take 5,10, 25cents pieces or $1 or $2 coins but no bills.