Problem with an American Changer change machine

[Acobi]

I bought an American Changer change machine about a year and half ago with a Coinco validator. Overall, it has been fairly reliable but I had a very interesting problem with it about a month ago. I keep a spreadsheet with the counter reading on the circuit board inside the machine each week. On this particular occassion, the machine was empty when I arrived at the laundromat to do the weekly count, but the paper money was very short of what it should have been. The reading on the circuit board was 40377, and after counting the cash in the machine, I discovered that we were short exactly $377. My theory is that some sort of logic problem existed with the circuit board and it jackpotted the entire contents of the coin hopper when it hit 40,000. The facility is not staffed so I have no way of knowing for sure. The machine hasn't been strung since it has been in operation and has only been off $10 a couple of times because of the new $10 bill being read as a $20 bill. I sent the entire internals to American Changer and they ofcourse didn't find anything wrong and stated that they have heard no accounts of that situation ever happening anywhere else (big suprise). The machine has been back in operation for a week and I have been unable to recreate the problem, but I'm confident the machine malfunctioned with it hit 40,000. Has anyone seen anything like this with their American Changer machines?

[TLR]

you got strung until you ran out of quarters - TLR

[Acobi]

There's no way I'm buying that. Under normal circumstances I'd certainly say it's a possibility, but:


It has never been strung since it has been in operation
The chances that the first time someone strings the machine just happens to be when the internal counter hit 40000 are slim to none.

The counter read 40377 and it was EXACTLY $377 short. It wasn't strung. The machine jackpotted the entire contents of the hopper when it hit 40000, which happened to be $377.

[Walter]

Acobi,

You may be right, but TLR could be right, too. Sometimes in trying to track down a problem, we all look for the most 'elegant' cause rather than a crude reality. A couple of questions:

1. Do you have a surveillance system to replay the timeframe when you believe the "jackpotting" occurred?

2. Can you reproduce the situation - i.e., reset the counter to 39.840 and then drop in two $20 bills (or four $10's) until you hit 40,000 and see of the problem recurs?

Also, if you can't reproduce the problem, you may want to consider biting the bullet and installing a Mars Validator - much more difficult to string....

Sorry about your misfortune...
Walter

[Acobi]

There is no way to reset the counter on the logic board. It is a cumulative counter that increments 1 for each dollar it dispenses for the life of the machine so at the time of the incident, it had dispensed $40000 total since it had been in operation. I ran $1000 through it since I got it back and I'm unable to recreate the problem, but I wasn't expected to be able to either since it was some 40000 count anomoly. I have kept an Excel spreadsheet of the counter reading every week since it has been in operation and it's only been off $10 twice since we've had it because of the new $10 being read as a $20. Otherwise, it's dead on the money. If stringing had been a problem, it would have been evident before now. The possibility of the very first stringer doing so right when it hits 40000 are lottery odds, especially when the counter is internal with no way for a would be stringer to see it (not that seeing the counter would matter anyway). I don't have surviellence of the incident but I know it happened on a late Monday morning which is a moderately busy time for the facility. Someone trying to string it would have been noticed and reported.

[Walter]

Acobi,

Thanks for your response. Two other things:

1. Does American have a "hopper dump" function (as do Standard and others)? If so, have you tested this function to make sure it's working correctly?

2. It's also possible that this is the first time you've been subject to a stringing attempt, and it's all possible that it coincides with a reading of 40,000. It's also possible that it could have happened at a reading of 35,000 - if that's when the stringing attempt took place. It's also possible that the stringing took place early Monday morning just when the store opened (despite what other customers may have reported), rather than later on when customers began arriving.

Basically, IMO you have to pursue both possibilites as a potential cause. If you don't have surveillance, you may want to install it now (if you can afford it), or at least temporarily put a dummy camera or two in place to discourage any potential stringing.

Walter

[Acobi]

There are dummy cameras in the facility already and we haven't had any problems related to theft (knock on wood). I know that stringing could happen anytime, however, in talking with American Changer when we were trying to diagnose the problem, if the unit had been strung the counter would not have incremented (or at least that is what they told me). If it was strung at 40000 like some would like to believe, the counter would have still read 40000 and the hopper would have been empty. If the stringing would have occurred at 40377, the imaginary stringer wouldn't have got anything at all because the hopper would have already been empty anyway (it only has a coin capacity of approximately $600-650). That completely rules out any possibility of stringing. Anyway, I didn't post this to be a debate about what happened. I'm am 200% confident what happened. I posted this so there would be a record of it if/when it happens someone else so we can build a case against American Changer if it should ever come to that. I just wish American Changer would admit it is a problem with their equipment but they don't seem to have a good track record of protecting their customers when there are known issues with some of their machines (such as the many cases of stringing).

[Von Hef]

American Changer recommends a surge arrestor with some of there machines. Failure to have this can result in the change machine dumping all the coins... especially if the machine shares an electrical leg with some of your washers.

[Tom Ala.]

If you had been strung the Coinco validator would have shut down with the stringing bill in it when it ran out of quaters. I know form expererence. 3 machines with a $20 and tape. Americans will dump if the power flickers just right. That has happened to me 2 time 9 machines over 12 years. Use a surge protector.
Tom

[Acobi]

Definitely no bill left in the validator when mine happened. It's been back in operation for two weeks now. The first week everything was fine but I checked tonight and it was $140 short. :( Up until that incident at 40000, it has been fine. I don't know what Amer Changer did when I sent them the internals (besides charge me $300) but it didn't help. I have to say, I really hate American Changer.

[William]

Bite the bullet and buy a Standard.

[Acobi]

I'm trying to sell the facility. Oh, and I had a Standard changer prior to buying the American. It was a POS too.

[Von Hef]

Do you have surge protection? I promise if you do not follow American's recomendation... you will loose coins.
I upgraded my American changer with Mars validators, and it has worked very well since.

[BWJR]

Yes, you got strung. It happened to me with a Coin Co. Get a Mars Validator and your stringing problems will be over.

Good Luck

BWJR