Complaint

[hithere]

one customer ask return because she said she put $4 of coins in 75lb washer and she changed her mind not to use 75lb, wants to use 35lb.
in this case, should we refund her?

Can you share with us what is store refund policy you have?
Do your attendant have to tell complaining customer your telephone number and your name(owner name) if customer ask?

how can you handle various mean and BIG mouth problemetic customers?

thank you

[William]

You should refund her.

The good news is you did not incur any costs.

Don't worry about the big mouths. Most of your customers know that they are just chronic complainers.

[Buddy_Amoroso]

Our policy is that we never give cash refunds we will only put money in a machine. If a customer has finished their wash and dry we will give them a card stating next time they come into the store we will give them a free wash or dry. BUT NEVER GIVE CASH TO A CUSTOMER!

I was in my store yesterday collecting coins and a lady came over to me and told me that last time she was in the store her cloths did not dry. Instead of arguing with her that the dryer was over loaded and that different cloths dry at different rates I told her I was sorry and I put 75 cents in her dryer and she was happy.

buddy amoroso

[hithere]

putting money in the machine was her choice and her own risk...
why should I refund money?? I don't agree...
if we do this way, then more and more people behavior like that customer...asking refund again and again...then our attendants would be very busy to do this refund stuffs everyday....




You should refund her.

The good news is you did not incur any costs.

Don't worry about the big mouths. Most of your customers know that they are just chronic complainers.

[anonymous]

These are very interesting comments. It seems coin store owner don't give cash refunds (which I agree with) but why do they think card stores should give money back that is put on a card. Customers can clearly see they are putting money on a card for service. I have not problem with giving them the service, and more so if there is a problem - but I agree with your no cash refund policy! Most stores these days do not give cash refunds for anything. Once you put your money down all you get is the service or product.

[Follow]

yes, you should refund her money... you don't lose $4, you win a good customer, or you can get her $4, lose her forever as a customer.

[wdbgelaundromat]

We have some speed queen machines in our store. If I caught it soon enough I would have stopped the machine with the service button and let her switch them. But I am sure she would not have wanted to. When your at the gas pump and you accidently put medium grade when you wanted regular, you can not get a refund.

But why loose a customer, pay for there dryer. They think they're getting a quarter but we know they're not.

[William]

putting money in the machine was her choice and her own risk...
why should I refund money?? I don't agree...
if we do this way, then more and more people behavior like that customer...asking refund again and again...then our attendants would be very busy to do this refund stuffs everyday....

Have you never changed your mind? Asked for a refund? Returned something unused to a store for a refund?

You lost nothing but a customer. Your machine did not start. No water, gas, or electricity was used.

How do you know that if you gave her a refund it would have snowballed into every customer asking for a refund. You are living in a make believe world of your own creation.

Bottom line - good customer service dictates you issue a refund.

If you don't agree, why did you ask?

[pete f]

It is very rare I do not give cash refunds to anyone who calls me. About 10% who call do not even want the refund, they just want me to know about the problem. I did get a call about 15 mins ago, the person said washer R, S, T, & U ( Dexter 18's,) did not extarct water well enough. He claim the clothes were still wet. I took his name and address, maybe send him $5. The washers are $2 a pop. I am sure their is nothing wrong with the washers, he probably overload? Even so,he said he comes often. Will he be happy with $5? Am I just throwing money away? Who knows. Maybe he was having a bad day, wife mad at him, had to work overtime. When he opens his mail in a few days and see $5 bill, my mat will look great to him. If he spends $12 every 2 weeks then I got a $312 return per year for my $5 At least 1/2 the time customers are reporting a problem I need to know about. I do not spend any money advertising. The somewhat rule is spend 2-5% of gross on advertising. So all that money I save I can afford to give away a few bucks here and there. Sure, I have seen someone start the wrong machine, no problem. Change your mind? Sometimes I even tell a person to change to a smaller machine when I see they have no need for a giant one. It is easy to use controls to set the washer back to zero. Think of yourself as a cable, electric, mobile phone company. These people are going to spend "X" dollars EVERY week. 2 weeks, month, whatever thier schedule. Why piss them off over a couple bucks?
To handle the big mouth, let him/her talk, DO NOT SAY A WORD, untill they are talked out. Then offer a solution to the problem, ie, money. They shut up pretty quick. Your customers are not crooks trying to steal from you, often the money they loose means a great deal to them.

William says this best ; >> You are living in a make believe world of your own creation. <<
Well, maybe that is a bit harsh, you are new and have not figured some of these things out.

[anonymous]

Cannot disagree more (well maybe I could). NEVER give cash, the word gets out and all the scam artists show up. I tell customers if they are ever not satisfied with how the wash came out we will let them run it through the machine again. Can only think of a handful of times anyone ever took us up on this.

Customer retention is a whole different story. I had a woman in today who was using a 75# washer, two 50# washers, two 35# washers and an 18# washer. My attendant told me she is a good customer (like I could not see that) who had stopped coming for maybe six months and started coming back about three weeks ago. So, I went up to her thanked her for her business as she was putting money on her card and then told her to wait a minute as I told her she had so much stuff that I was going to save her some money as I started one of her 35# machines for free. You should have seen the look on her face, she said no one had ever done anything like for her before. Guess she will be sticking around now.

[William]

William says this best ; >> You are living in a make believe world of your own creation. <<
Well, maybe that is a bit harsh, you are new and have not figured some of these things out.

Pete is right, it was too harsh. I am sorry.

But you still need to give the refund.

[hithere]

Pete is right, it was too harsh. I am sorry.

But you still need to give the refund.

ok, I see

I will refund next time...

I just worried about "snowball" effect.

But I think it's ok just refund the same money in other machine that she changed her mind to...

thanks for your kind advices :-)

[CharlieS]

My instructions to my attendants are simple. Always provide the refund (preferably in the form of starting a machine, but cash if necessary), unless the customer is a repeat abuser of refunds. Then defer them to me, but still don't deny, simply say that they need to contact the manager (me). This rarely happens, about once a year at most.

Its not worth it to lose a good customer because you are too cheap to appreciate them.

Charlie

[Kitty]

Life is getting good in laundry land...;)

[pete f]

WOW. You must have been burned somewhere. Go return to any major store, Home Depot, Wal-Mart, Macy’s, and you will get a cash refund if you paid cash. Let's learn from the big guys.
Assume you went to Wal-Mart and bought a red bedspread. You get home, and decide it is not the right color. You go back to Wal-Mart, they happily give you your money back or credit your card. No questions, no problem. How do you feel? Like shopping more. Imagine if they said, no store credit only. You would probably be pissed off, go find something for the amount and never return.
Today when I entered a mat a lady came up to me and thanked me for sending her $3. She had trouble with a washer last week, I asked her few questions about operation, I was unsure what the cause. She thanked me again and went on her way doing some 150# of wash. ( 2 60#'s and 1 18# )
If you are attended then I see your position better, but ! I have found offering a wash vs. a cash refund makes the customer think you don't trust them, that leads to a no repeat customer. How often do you think a "scam" artist takes you for $.75, 1.50??

[hithere]

cash back is too much for customer care,
but cutomers appreciate it even refund into other machines ...
by the way, there are many liers....

WOW. You must have been burned somewhere. Go return to any major store, Home Depot, Wal-Mart, Macy’s, and you will get a cash refund if you paid cash. Let's learn from the big guys.
Assume you went to Wal-Mart and bought a red bedspread. You get home, and decide it is not the right color. You go back to Wal-Mart, they happily give you your money back or credit your card. No questions, no problem. How do you feel? Like shopping more. Imagine if they said, no store credit only. You would probably be pissed off, go find something for the amount and never return.
Today when I entered a mat a lady came up to me and thanked me for sending her $3. She had trouble with a washer last week, I asked her few questions about operation, I was unsure what the cause. She thanked me again and went on her way doing some 150# of wash. ( 2 60#'s and 1 18# )
If you are attended then I see your position better, but ! I have found offering a wash vs. a cash refund makes the customer think you don't trust them, that leads to a no repeat customer. How often do you think a "scam" artist takes you for $.75, 1.50??

[anonymous]

WOW. You must have been burned somewhere. Go return to any major store, Home Depot, Wal-Mart, Macy’s, and you will get a cash refund if you paid cash. Let's learn from the big guys.
Assume you went to Wal-Mart and bought a red bedspread. You get home, and decide it is not the right color. You go back to Wal-Mart, they happily give you your money back or credit your card. No questions, no problem. How do you feel? Like shopping more. Imagine if they said, no store credit only. You would probably be pissed off, go find something for the amount and never return.
Today when I entered a mat a lady came up to me and thanked me for sending her $3. She had trouble with a washer last week, I asked her few questions about operation, I was unsure what the cause. She thanked me again and went on her way doing some 150# of wash. ( 2 60#'s and 1 18# )
If you are attended then I see your position better, but ! I have found offering a wash vs. a cash refund makes the customer think you don't trust them, that leads to a no repeat customer. How often do you think a "scam" artist takes you for $.75, 1.50??

Well Pete you are 100% certain I am wrong, and I am 100% certain you are wrong - so I guess we agree to disagree.

Customer satisfaction is a fools folly, do some research on cvm - then you might be on to something. As far as Walmart, HomeDepot and the like they cheerfully give cash back within a certain time period with a receipt, without a receipt (if you get anything) you get store credit. That is the policy of most retailers these days, with good reason.

[William]

I'm with Pete, if you couldn't tell already.

I give refunds over the phone without any question. I instruct my attendants to give refunds no questions asked. It is moot whether or not you give a refund or a free start on a machine. The customer is asking for a refund in the mat, they are going to use the money to start another machine anyway.

Have any of you never gone to clear a coin jam and found several dollars worth of coins in the machine? Yet no one asked for a refund! What about all those people that were ripped off yet you never heard from them? Where are they now...

YES, some people DO try to RIP YOU OFF! But it is a much smaller number than you think. And I am willing to bet that if you tally up the coins you get from jammed machines and compare it to the refunds that you give to con artists, you will STILL COME OUT AHEAD!

Besides, what are we talking about? Give someone a refund on a $3.00 washer, your actual cost is about $1.00. A refund of .50 on a dryer cost you a dime. The only time it is dollar for dollar is at the changer.

I have gotten calls before that someone lost $20 in the change machine. I drive to the mat and give them $20 before I even open the machine. I apologize that the machine took their money, then I go clear the problem.

In five years and many many many thousands of dollars in revenues from 4 laundries and a car wash I bet I have been scammed a total of about $200. What is my actual cost of the $200?

I am comfortable with my way of handling refunds. I would welcome anyone else to come to my market and be my competetor.

[Kitty]

William and Pete, I think we have battled this discussion before and maintained our ground regarding the customer and how to handle the consumer!

I am proud! ;)

Many times we'd start washers for customers for the convenience but many times we'd refund cash. If operators would simply listen to the customers complaint at the inception most often complaints would be minimized and the consumers would be immediately satisfied. By listening and actually hearing what the customer is saying gives the customer your undivided attention and they notice this, a return in cash was a better return for both the operation and the consumer in our humble opinion....I worked for a third generation multi unit laundromat owner.

So often people are either thinking and or talking about the consumer and what they think they are trying to convey or whose fault it is that they are having an issue at all. The point of the matter is to LISTEN... as the goal is to RETAIN your customer. If only people open the ears and shuts the mouths consumers will speak what really bothers them and what the issue is that needs resolving.

All they want is service and then theywill give loyalty in return!

[wdbgelaundromat]

I Just had someone yesterday AM try and scam me. He comes up to my attendant and says he put the quarters in the top loader but it diddnt start. The guy was real shady so she came and got me before she made a refund. I had dumpbed the quarters the night before so I opened the coin safe. Sure enough there were no quarters in the coin safe, I showed the guy and he grabbed his clothes and left. I wonder what he was going to say about the dryer.

[Kitty]

I have done that before, but you know what? Unfortunately the customer has put the money in the machine to the right or the left. But, you would not realize this unless you put the lids down on either machine prior to checking the coin box.

But as always there may be some shady characters that try to scam a buck or two out of you

[pete f]

Again today when I was in a mat a man came up to me and thanked me for sending him a refund. I just smiled and said no problem. I have no idea what I sent him or why, but he was smiling and doing wash, just like the lady yesterday who came up to me and told me the same thing. I may be in a better postion, I am unattended, so most people leave an OOO note, I check the machine and send them back a refund plus an explanation of what happened if I can find a problem. If someone calls on the phone I take down thier name and address, ask them to put a note on the machine. If I suspect something I refer to my cams. There are times I send a partial refund if I really feel the customer does not deserve a full refund, like they badly overloaded a machine or something. This is rare. I am not sure about scam aritits, though one time I did find a pile of OOO slips, all written in pencil and had no phone numbers, asking for various amounts of money from machines, the amounts did not match the machine price. I figured very quickly it was some kids. I agree with William, I find more cash jammed in machines or under them or on the floor or in the dryer lint trays then I probably send out in refunds. I send stamps instead of coin for teh odd amounts, all of the time rounded up, I have had people use the stamps to send me a thank you card for the refund. What kind of price do you put on this type of customer satisfaction? Worry about being scammed for a few bucks a year? I think it is worth the risk. The few times I have tried the " I'll start a machine" the customers felt like I did not believe them and had a bad attitude. Cash keeps them happy.

[DuboisLaundry]

Its just me, no attendants.
I prefer to start (or restart) a machine - same or different machine depending on the situation
if they already switched to another machine and used more money I'll refund it.
Occasionally I'm not here and someone will leave a note saying they lost money but usually only a phone number, so I call and try to arrange a refund or free cycle next time they are in.

[John H]

So yesterday a guy came into the laundromat while I was out running errands. He approached my attendant, who's a very sharp lady, and told her he and his girlfriend had been here last Thursday and had put ten dollars in the changer but had not received any change. She asked him why they had not brought it to our attention, since there is always someone here? He said there was no one around when they were here. She told him to come back at two o'clock when I was due to come back to work. Sure enough, the guy shows up and repeats his story to me. I told him I was really puzzled by what he was telling me...because we are fully attended. He started changing his story a little, said it might have been Wednesday. "Did you actually do your laundry here?" I asked him. "Yeah," he replied. "But I was in the car most of the time, we've been here several times, though." I refused to give him a refund. I didn't recognize him. My validator is only a month old, it's a Coinco Mag 50 and has not had a jam or failure since installed and I found no evidence of a jammed bill. He said he and his girlfriend could start going somewhere else. All I could do was shrug. I later looked at the surveillance videos of the time frames he said he was here. I was right. He was a lying s-o-b.

By the way, I'm usually very quick to give refunds to customers who've made a mistake, changed their mind or encountered a problem. I think that's absolutely necessary if you pride yourself on offering world-class customer service. I guess I really feel sorry for my scam guy. He's really too stupid to be an effective criminal.

John

[anonymous]

Perfect example of why you use judgement when you decide how to handle a "customer".

I love the ones that come in for change and don't ever do there wash. My attendant told me this morning that a certain lady always comes in for quarters and never does laundry. Mind you we are a card store, but many times the attendant will give change if she has excess. This day she said no, change is for customers only. So the lady goes to the card machine and inserts $20 and it gives her a card. She starts complaining to the attendant that she wanted quarters. The attendant tells her that (as she was told before) change is for customers only. She then tells the attendant she wants her money back. The attendant takes her back to the card machine and shows her the two signs that clearly states all refunds are store credit only and explains to her she now has a card with $20 on it and is free to come in any time we are open to do her wash. :) :) :)

[Boxer]

The attendant takes her back to the card machine and shows her the two signs that clearly states all refunds are store credit only and explains to her she now has a card with $20 on it and is free to come in any time we are open to do her wash. :) :) :)

Your tell us after she :eek::eek::eek::eek: up and put 20 dollar in the card machine and thought she would get back change ,but got a card you would not refund her money?

Don't you think that was lesson enough?

You're a real nut case man You just stole 20 bucks from this person.
Mine you she is an fool and did not read the signs but you stole her money.

Where is your store you need to check your customers at the door like the airport does. ;( ;( ;(

[William]

How about this one. The attendant calls and tells me a man lost $20 in the change machine and now it is out of order. I tell her to give him $20 no questions asked. I was in the car nearby so I went to the mat right away. I cleared the jam. It was a $5 that was crinkled, followed by a $20 that jamed the acceptor. I went and looked at the cameras. It turns out the same GENTLEMAN that asked for his $20 back also put the $5 in first! I went up to him and said that I think the $5 is his also. He looks shocked, and then says I am right, he forgot about the five. He said that he must have put them in too fast or one on top of the other (the cameras confirm this). He cannot believe that we are SO HONEST and he says that he will never go anywhere else and he will tell all of his friends.

I suppose some of you would have interrogated him on the $20, not given it to him until you checked the machine and reconciled every hopper to the audit, then kept the $5...and never see him in your mat again because you made him feel like a liar.

[pete f]

Changers are a different story, only to say I must know if they are doing laundry or just gettingt quarters. It is fairly easy to weed out the mongers, those who come in for change and never do laundry. Most changer issues I go to correct, if I show up and a person has laundry baskets all over, I get them the change they needed then figure out the problem. I usualy ask on the phone something like "do you have enough to get started" to see where they are at. After a few questions I know what I am dealing with. Even so, coin mongers have never tried to scam me.
They usually get thir money back, though it takes longer. And at times I have said no refund, I will start machines for you. These were cases on coin mongers who happen to get caught. Last nite I got a call at 1 am! Some lady put $10 in the bill to bill and only got back $1. I said, can I call the police or an ambulance for you> this is an after hours emegency line. She is like no, I want my $9, I told her to call after 9 am the next morning. I knew something was up. I went to the mat early to check out the bill to bill, it was not OOO, and thier was $10 in thr last bill taken. I put it thru again and got $!0 ones back. I checked the cam. this girl came in 10 mins before I close and was there to just get change, well, $1 bills. My bill to bill is very popluar with the crack dealers and thier customers. When she called the next morning I did the same thing Cleanclothes did, I told her she gets a store card for $8, plus when she turns the card I mail out she gets another $1, effectively taking her money. She did not like this at all, was getting bills to put on her card, could not becuase we were closing, all kinds of excuses. My bill to bill clearly says "Customers Only, no cash refund, only credit" The changer did rip her, I sent her the card today.
If they are NOT a customer and are abusing your stuff I think it is OK to treat them like crap, maybe you get rid of them.
Real customers, treat like royalty and give them refunds and respect

[anonymous]

Your tell us after she :eek::eek::eek::eek: up and put 20 dollar in the card machine and thought she would get back change ,but got a card you would not refund her money?

Don't you think that was lesson enough?

You're a real nut case man You just stole 20 bucks from this person.
Mine you she is an fool and did not read the signs but you stole her money.

Where is your store you need to check your customers at the door like the airport does. ;( ;( ;(

YOU are the #$%#$% Nut case man, how did we steal anything - she prepaid for a service and no one is stoping her from using the service. No different than when you buy a gift card from Target, HomeDepot, Lowes or anyother place - once you buy them they are not refundable for cash - they may only be used in the store -- we operate the same way. She was the one thinking she pulled a fast one by by-passing the attendant and using the machine.

[Kitty]

YOU are the #$%#$% Nut case man, how did we steal anything - she prepaid for a service and no one is stoping her from using the service. No different than when you buy a gift card from Target, HomeDepot, Lowes or anyother place - once you buy them they are not refundable for cash - they may only be used in the store -- we operate the same way. She was the one thinking she pulled a fast one by by-passing the attendant and using the machine.



This business is slightly different than that of Target, depot or the others you provide a service. Laundry services to many is a necessity and of course we know that many that utilize these services are underprivelaged. I do not believe your scenario discusses the fact that the customer utilized your facility, and the fact you give her the right does not matter, you have dissatisfied her and not guarenteed your establishment, nor are you being customer friendly. I do understand the fact that it is a hassle to continous refunds you could charge a fee for that aspect, however withholding the entire amount the consumer has put on the card in your business is ridiculous, how you handle these refunds will promote respect to you however you must respect your customers and how they do business and survive in this world, they are your bread and butter. Do not give me an example of a gift card to a store as it is possible to refund to cash if you like, I just did enjoyd that beefit at Belk...without a receipt...just the other day. Sometimes people want CASH BACK especially for services not rendered or products not received.


You must be the only game in town, as your customer service skills seem a bit unfriendly and certain this is the way to do business. If I had a store in your market, I would capitilize on your unfriendly service and take some of your market share. A smart talented and customer service oriented owner/manager will not be taken to the cleaners in regards to refunds. It is not a good retention policy for owners to be nasty and unfriendly and I would take great pride in using my superior customer service skills to show you the difference by gaining customer loyalty and in the end customer retention. I would also have a great profit margin and yield great customer/income ratios averages month after month.

[Boxer]

YOU are the #$%#$% Nut case man, how did we steal anything - she prepaid for a service and no one is stoping her from using the service. No different than when you buy a gift card from Target, HomeDepot, Lowes or anyother place - once you buy them they are not refundable for cash - they may only be used in the store -- we operate the same way. She was the one thinking she pulled a fast one by by-passing the attendant and using the machine.

Nice move . You made a 20 spot and I'm the asshole.
I sometime wonder what motivates people like you?
I bet your a pip with road rage too.
Don't you think if you gave here back the 20 you would be the smarter one and she would of never been back?

But you made a quick 20 wow wee what a guy ;)

[Anonymous]

I have to agree with Cleanclothes. The person was not a customer. They were only there to try and take quarters and they disobeyed the attendant and got what they derserve.
I have people come and try to take change all the time. If you are nice to them they keep coming back.
I give refunds to CUSTOMERS all the time no questions asked.

[anonymous]

This business is slightly different than that of Target, depot or the others you provide a service. Laundry services to many is a necessity and of course we know that many that utilize these services are underprivelaged. I do not believe your scenario discusses the fact that the customer utilized your facility, and the fact you give her the right does not matter, you have dissatisfied her and not guarenteed your establishment, nor are you being customer friendly. I do understand the fact that it is a hassle to continous refunds you could charge a fee for that aspect, however withholding the entire amount the consumer has put on the card in your business is ridiculous, how you handle these refunds will promote respect to you however you must respect your customers and how they do business and survive in this world, they are your bread and butter. Do not give me an example of a gift card to a store as it is possible to refund to cash if you like, I just did enjoyd that beefit at Belk...without a receipt...just the other day. Sometimes people want CASH BACK especially for services not rendered or products not received.


You must be the only game in town, as your customer service skills seem a bit unfriendly and certain this is the way to do business. If I had a store in your market, I would capitilize on your unfriendly service and take some of your market share. A smart talented and customer service oriented owner/manager will not be taken to the cleaners in regards to refunds. It is not a good retention policy for owners to be nasty and unfriendly and I would take great pride in using my superior customer service skills to show you the difference by gaining customer loyalty and in the end customer retention. I would also have a great profit margin and yield great customer/income ratios averages month after month.


Kitty, you know nothing about what you speak. First I have 5 direct competitors and customers love our customer service as it is far superior to any other game in town. We compete with some stores that have a very simple refund policy - there are none period. What you and many fail to understand is basic business 101 that there is no need to give the customer everything they want - only be the best. If you are the best, then you delight the customer. Your approach is just as stupid as offering washes for 25 cents. If your market is such that the cheapest wash is lets say $2 then you are head and shoulders above the fray if you were at $1.50, why would you drop your prices lower if you wanted to be the low cost competitor. It would be stupid too. Well the same goes for refund policy, if you are better than everyone else then customers that value that would flock to you. No need to be better than that, it just costs you margin. Google CVM and you might learn something. You are always talking customer satisfaction, but leading companies have long ago learned that customer satisfaction is a meaningless measurement. Satisfied customers leave for other businesses everyday - that is not the true hot buttom, but one that research and measurement firms have done a great job marketing. I know, I was in that game for many years.

And I don't know if national chains have strange policies in the sticks where you live, but if you check gift cards for such major chains as Federated Departmant stores and the others I talk about they clearly state no cash refunds, for many reasons. Further, many start deducting a monthly fee after a year the card is outstanding. They don't refund cash partly because many give cards as refunds to customers that don't have receipts and have questionable returns - they want to be sure they recapture their revenue.

Your excellent customer satisfaction skills will lead to sub optimal business returns. It is easy for someone that does not have P&L responsibility to spout off about customer satisfaction the way you do. But satisfaction with a refund policy is just one tiny part of the business and all aspects must be optimized with respect to one another not just doing well in one area.

PS - why would I want to satisfy a nasty woman that never has and never will use my facility - she is only there because she was able to get something that no other store in the area would give her - change. Remember we are not in the change business.

[Kitty]

Kitty, you know nothing about what you speak. First I have 5 direct competitors and customers love our customer service as it is far superior to any other game in town. We compete with some stores that have a very simple refund policy - there are none period. What you and many fail to understand is basic business 101 that there is no need to give the customer everything they want - only be the best. If you are the best, then you delight the customer. Your approach is just as stupid as offering washes for 25 cents. If your market is such that the cheapest wash is lets say $2 then you are head and shoulders above the fray if you were at $1.50, why would you drop your prices lower if you wanted to be the low cost competitor. It would be stupid too. Well the same goes for refund policy, if you are better than everyone else then customers that value that would flock to you. No need to be better than that, it just costs you margin. Google CVM and you might learn something. You are always talking customer satisfaction, but leading companies have long ago learned that customer satisfaction is a meaningless measurement. Satisfied customers leave for other businesses everyday - that is not the true hot buttom, but one that research and measurement firms have done a great job marketing. I know, I was in that game for many years.

And I don't know if national chains have strange policies in the sticks where you live, but if you check gift cards for such major chains as Federated Departmant stores and the others I talk about they clearly state no cash refunds, for many reasons. Further, many start deducting a monthly fee after a year the card is outstanding. They don't refund cash partly because many give cards as refunds to customers that don't have receipts and have questionable returns - they want to be sure they recapture their revenue.

Your excellent customer satisfaction skills will lead to sub optimal business returns. It is easy for someone that does not have P&L responsibility to spout off about customer satisfaction the way you do. But satisfaction with a refund policy is just one tiny part of the business and all aspects must be optimized with respect to one another not just doing well in one area.

PS - why would I want to satisfy a nasty woman that never has and never will use my facility - she is only there because she was able to get something that no other store in the area would give her - change. Remember we are not in the change business.

I do not believe you need to give everything to everyone, read my other threads above. My thoughts on this isse are not stupid, nor my practices, maybe the fact you make reference to things such as this is why you may irritate people. What I am conveying to you sir, is customer service and how things should be handled in order to promote a friendly customer service oreinted establishment versus a hostile atmosphere where employees or owners do not care where or how their bread is buttered. There was no need to keep the womans money just because she was nasty. Did you got the last laugh for being nasty back? What purpose does it serve to be that way? But if it makes you feel better I suppose it was worth it?

When I took business classes, I don't beleive there was a section on how to handle such transactions...ie cash to cash with the consumer never receiving the service and what exactly the ratio of my lost investment would compute to, especially when the transaction incurred within minutes of the refund request.
In my tenure with three laundromats I did have P&L resposnibility and I am quite aware of where to increase the bottom line.

"I don't beleive I would utilize my skills to increasing the bottom line by retaining refunds."

I can tell you I treat customers an non customers alike with respect even if they chose to disrepect me, I will of course have my say but getting to a positive result is far superrior than a negative one. You keeping the money was a negative result as one party left very unhappy. I may have delayed the refund to the woman to make my point to her or possibly would have given it to her on the spot and asked her not to return if I thought that was the best answer, but I would not in any circumstance kept money from her simply because I had that power.

My point is that customers should be dealt with respect even when they sometimes get irrate as they are the consumer and without these people driving your wagon I don't believe you would be generating income. This is the business you chose for investments and return rates however it is the customer base of your market that dictates who is using your services. You must have known who would be seeing on a daily or weekly basis.

Now you say she was never a customer? How about her mother, aunt, sister daughter etc? You don't think she knows someone that utilizes your services? How about the fact she may have been a future customer? Not anymore I bet, not the way she was treated, even though she tried to get over on you with the change, you really didi not know her. I hope you did not prequalify this woman as trash and that she did not deserve your trouble? If that was the answer you could have given her, the change and asked her never to return. Remember the old saying piss off a customer and you have pissed off ten as the customer will tell 10 people and they will tell 10 people.
You want positive results and attitudes not negative ones regardless of the circumstance. You should strive for a positive result and everyone who leaves your store to be left in a positve mood. You are not at a Fortune 500 company you are at a Laundromat your attitude should change.

I had my gift card and she converted it to cash because I asked her to, what a concept. I don't believe where I live would be considered the sticks as the area is full of tourism, thriving and growing business and rising real estate with oodles of muti million dollar homes. So, don't prequalify my whereabouts either.

[Boxer]

Well I guess it's all about being a better person. You seem like your out to teach the world a lesson.
We are only laundromats that's all, Nothing more nothing less.

Something that is suppose to help the community. I get it, you're pissed because they used your changes machine. I have the same problem,
But your hate comes permeating to the point of I'll teach those SOB's

You're acting like a child. The lady was a dumb ass, this has been pointed out. She thought she got over on you (your pissed)
She got a card you got 20 bucks.
She feels like a fool you feel like ah I got her 20 bucks.

Lesson learn the lady now knows this is not for change. Her little mind figured it out. Do you think now she will do it again.
Pavloff's law (now if she does it again all bets off)

You feel it's your 20;
I bet and I'm guessing here, If you had a kid (college age) who needed bus bus fare (exact fare) home and lost his or her 20 bucks in a laundromat card machine thinking it was for change.
He or she calls you up and told you crying they won't give me my money back(she or he admitted not reading the signs).
I bet you'll drive out their with your NJ/NY attitude and have some words.
STOP being a sub human Stop being a hard ass.

We are only a Laundromat for god sake.

Now you can bash me

[PeterH]

Laundry services to many is a necessity and of course we know that many that utilize these services are underprivileged.

Nothing underprivileged about laundry customers at all. Many that utilize these services simply don't have a washer at home.

Funny how it is the people who loose a single quarter in a dryer are the ones who get the most upset?

The more money they loose, the more likely they will stick around to have their money returned to them (not a refund). Also, the more money they claim to loose, the more sceptical I am and the more research I will do before returning their money to them.

One of my stores is in an area with many gypsies and Irish Travelers. I learned very quickly to be very sceptical before returning money and issuing refunds. My other store is highly Hispanic and I don't think twice about refunds there.

[Boxer]

Well I guess it's all about being a better person. You seem like your out to teach the world a lesson.
We are only laundromats that's all, Nothing more nothing less.

Something that is suppose to help the community. I get it, you're pissed because they used your changes machine. I have the same problem,
But your hate comes permeating to the point of I'll teach those SOB's

You're acting like a child. The lady was a dumb ass, this has been pointed out. She thought she got over on you (your pissed)
She got a card you got 20 bucks.
She feels like a fool you feel like ah I got her 20 bucks.

Lesson learn the lady now knows this is not for change. Her little mind figured it out. Do you think now she will do it again.
Pavloff's law (now if she does it again all bets off)

You feel it's your 20;
I bet and I'm guessing here, If you had a kid (college age) who needed bus bus fare (exact fare) home and lost his or her 20 bucks in a laundromat card machine thinking it was for change.
He or she calls you up and told you crying they won't give me my money back(she or he admitted not reading the signs).
I bet you'll drive out their with your NJ/NY attitude and have some words.
STOP being a sub human Stop being a hard ass.

We are only a Laundromat for god sake.

Now you can bash me
Funny how it is the people who loose a single quarter in a dryer are the ones who get the most upset?
How great is this thread , now we turned in to ethic profiling.
Wonderful.
Also how funny it is that you pointed out how the customer fights for a quarter.
The question is how hard it is for the Laundromat too refund a quarter?

I understand if these are REPEAT refunders you boot them.

We are all equal as all laundromat are own by different ethic people too?

[PeterH]

. . . now we turned in to ethic profiling.
Wonderful.
Also how funny it is that you pointed out how the customer fights for a quarter.
The question is how hard it is for the Laundromat too refund a quarter?


Angry over a quarter? Here, have a quarter, and here are two more to boot. I just think it is funny how explosive people get over the one or two quarters they loose, and the ones who get the $20 jammed are really quite pleasant and patient.

Ethic profiling? It's more like customer profiling. Facts is facts. As an owner, it's foolish not to.

[Boxer]

How great is this thread , now we turned in to ethic profiling.
Wonderful.
Also how funny it is that you pointed out how the customer fights for a quarter.
The question is how hard it is for the Laundromat too refund a quarter?

I understand if these are REPEAT refunders you boot them.

We are all equal as all laundromat are own by different ethic people too?

Boy are you touchy I came to this country to get away from this and you think this?
I'm questioning your thinking,and how your side stepping my question
to cleanclothes.
I try to treat everyone equal. If you walked in to my laundromat what should I expect to see?
I guess being from another country i see it differance

[hithere]

kitty's opinion is a little childish....
That theory is on the BOOK, not applicable in THIS REAL WORLD.

idealologically, we should treat and respect EVERY PEOPLE as the same regardless of "laundry customer" or "not laundry customer" since who knows they would come as a real laundry customer in the future....??

But I DON'T think SO....!!!

in 99% chance, they will not come as a real customer...they want just "CHANGE" because they want to use their Apartment laundry and they need the QUARTERS or that store is the only store that provide "CHANGE" near around their home...

I think we need to defferently treat people...
if they do laundry now, then they are REAL customer,
if they do just "LOITERING" or doing only "CHANGE money" or just use "RESTROOM",then they are not REAL customer and we may refuse them. It doesn't impact business, maybe real customers feel more happy about this since they can use all these facilities at free and at any time....

[PeterH]

I'm questioning your thinking,and how your side stepping my question to cleanclothes.

There's a question in here? Pose your question again, my friend, and let's see if we can get an answer.

[Boxer]

Well I guess it's all about being a better person. You seem like your out to teach the world a lesson.
We are only laundromats that's all, Nothing more nothing less.

Something that is suppose to help the community. I get it, you're pissed because they used your changes machine. I have the same problem,
But your hate comes permeating to the point of I'll teach those SOB's

You're acting like a child. The lady was a dumb ass, this has been pointed out. She thought she got over on you (your pissed)
She got a card you got 20 bucks.
She feels like a fool you feel like ah I got her 20 bucks.

Lesson learn the lady now knows this is not for change. Her little mind figured it out. Do you think now she will do it again.
Pavloff's law (now if she does it again all bets off)

You feel it's your 20;
I bet and I'm guessing here, If you had a kid (college age) who needed bus bus fare (exact fare) home and lost his or her 20 bucks in a laundromat card machine thinking it was for change.
He or she calls you up and told you crying they won't give me my money back(she or he admitted not reading the signs).
I bet you'll drive out their with your NJ/NY attitude and have some words.
STOP being a sub human Stop being a hard ass.

We are only a Laundromat for god sake.

Now you can bash me

You're missing th point and saying Kitty opinion is a little childish....
What does that make you?

Thank you PeterH
I'm pointing to Cleancloths point of view Sir.
keeping the money
I wonder about these small businesses

Yes there are idiots out there who think they can get away and beat the system and screw them too.


Please refer to quote

[pete f]

Wow! There are opinion on sides. Funny thing, I agree and disagree with cleanclothes. I agree that someone who comes in to only get change, robbing you of assets ment for a paying customer, is a target to screw. I mean burn 'em. When cleanclothes posted he got $20 from the coin monger, on the coin mongers' own doing, I thought that was great! This person was robbing you, you caught him and made him pay. I do not understand why others here are upset with this outcome, but you have your reasons, as I do. I have a remote switch I bought at radio shack, I us it sometimes to stop the coin changer in the middle of dispensing coins. Always it is a coin monger I seek to rip off. Like the homeless, these poeple have no respect for your business, will never give you any income, and seek to use your facility for there own personal use and gain. I say screw them to the wall, they are stealing service and hopefully they will never come back.

Now, when a customer looses .75, $1.50, whatever the reason, I dissagree with cleanclothes. I know he own a card store, so maybe a cash refund is not needed, he can credit their card. This may be a point I have missed. I tend to credit the card rather than give cash at my card store also.

OK, keep the comments coming in!

I think hithere got more than bargained for!

[Boxer]

America what a country. Learn to screw people and be screwed.

I hope my kids don't learn from you all. It's a sad day.

WHAT A COUNTRY !!! I learn so much from you people ;(

[Von Hef]

I don't cheat people...even if it seems they are trying to cheat me. I may express my displeasure when someone is trying to do it... but I refuse to stoop to their level. Just try to treat others the way I wish to be treated. :)

[Anonymous]

I agree with Pete F 100%.

[anonymous]

Wow! There are opinion on sides. Funny thing, I agree and disagree with cleanclothes. I agree that someone who comes in to only get change, robbing you of assets ment for a paying customer, is a target to screw. I mean burn 'em. When cleanclothes posted he got $20 from the coin monger, on the coin mongers' own doing, I thought that was great! This person was robbing you, you caught him and made him pay. I do not understand why others here are upset with this outcome, but you have your reasons, as I do. I have a remote switch I bought at radio shack, I us it sometimes to stop the coin changer in the middle of dispensing coins. Always it is a coin monger I seek to rip off. Like the homeless, these poeple have no respect for your business, will never give you any income, and seek to use your facility for there own personal use and gain. I say screw them to the wall, they are stealing service and hopefully they will never come back.

Now, when a customer looses .75, $1.50, whatever the reason, I dissagree with cleanclothes. I know he own a card store, so maybe a cash refund is not needed, he can credit their card. This may be a point I have missed. I tend to credit the card rather than give cash at my card store also.

OK, keep the comments coming in!

I think hithere got more than bargained for!


Pete you hit the nail on the head!

We have a store policy no cash refunds, clearly posted. If people don't like it they are free to go elsewhere - it is how we choose to operate the business. Kitty is free to not like the policy, but that is too bad we really don't care. It works for us.

As far as refunds, we give plenty of them - maybe more than most stores, just not as cash. Excluding our frequent washer program I checked the logs for the last 3 years and we on average give refunds/free service to the tune of over $20 a week. Many times I will see a customer with many machines and just start one for them for free when I am in the store. That is part of CVM which Kitty has no clue about.

The spew about excellent customer service is a one trick poney. There are customers that get it, and others that don't because they don't warrant it. In kitty's perfect makebelieve world you treat all customers the same. In the real world, where a business exists to make money, you treat a customer that uses five washers every week very differently than the one that comes in once a month, spills soap all over the floor, leaves nails in their clothing to ruin your equipment, and constantly complains that the dryers are not that hot. That customer I want to piss off and drive them to the laundromat that the Kitty's of this world operate. Like most successful businesses there are customers that I want and many others that I don't want in my store. That is the reality of life.

The spew on excellent customer service and satisfaction reminds me of the secretary that is always telling the boss how he is doing one thing wrong. He puts up with it, but eventually fires her because he is sick and tired of hearing her tunnel vision. Sure she might have a good idea in that one area, but he has to run all aspects of the business and makes constant trade-offs in its operation that the secretary just doesn't see or doesn't understand. That is why he is the boss, it is his business and he can run it any way he likes. Business does not exists to delight every customer, it exists to make a profit. You do what you need to do in order to acheive that goal.

[Boxer]

Well I guess it's all about being a better person. You seem like your out to teach the world a lesson.
We are only laundromats that's all, Nothing more nothing less.

Something that is suppose to help the community. I get it, you're pissed because they used your changes machine. I have the same problem,
But your hate comes permeating to the point of I'll teach those SOB's

You're acting like a child. The lady was a dumb ass, this has been pointed out. She thought she got over on you (your pissed)
She got a card you got 20 bucks.
She feels like a fool you feel like ah I got her 20 bucks.

Lesson learn the lady now knows this is not for change. Her little mind figured it out. Do you think now she will do it again.
Pavloff's law (now if she does it again all bets off)

You feel it's your 20;
I bet and I'm guessing here, If you had a kid (college age) who needed bus bus fare (exact fare) home and lost his or her 20 bucks in a laundromat card machine thinking it was for change.
He or she calls you up and told you crying they won't give me my money back(she or he admitted not reading the signs).
I bet you'll drive out their with your NJ/NY attitude and have some words.
STOP being a sub human Stop being a hard ass.

We are only a Laundromat for god sake.

Now you can bash me

You're a real bone head and I see it is your nature to want POWER.
I hope and pray for your customers base NJ/NY to read this post.
If you read Pete f closely he makes sense.
You sound like a person from my old country who wants to be how do you say PIG headed.
The word spew and downing people there is a lot on hate in you.
How many laundromats do you own?

Do you have your family run them too?

I have 5 Laundromats and never would I run them like you NEVER.
I have refund and change problems too. But I don't feel like my customers are sub human.

I came to this GREAT country with nothing "0" Thank God for the USA.
But you remind me of what I left
It seems to me you must bash others.
Now please how many laundry's do you have?and how big is it?

I got to know please may be I'm am wrong ?

[Kitty]

I don't cheat people...even if it seems they are trying to cheat me. I may express my displeasure when someone is trying to do it... but I refuse to stoop to their level. Just try to treat others the way I wish to be treated. :)

If you read my posts what Vonhef is stating here is what I have been trying to convey as well. Thank you Von!

There may be change mongers in the world but when you the owner is in the store and you see this happening as you stated with this woman you had the golden opportunity to speak to her with respect and talk to her about your business and why you have the policies in place. But something so trival escalted to the point of this woman being cheated as you kept her money. Of course you do not treat every customer the same, there are VIP customers in every business and you should know who they are, what I have said and will say over and over is that you treat customers with respect and give everyone great customer service without pre-qualifying them as people that are not as good as the VIP's. Treat people as you would like to be treated and things will not get out of hand and both the potential customer, customer and the owner will come out a head in the end.

Don't give me a lecture on Business 101 or insult me with nasty discussions over my exit from my former position for which you are unclear with, insulting me in print with what you wrote shows me the type of person you are and the fact you show a lack of respect. What makes a person an employer is simply by owning a business and putting employees in place, owning a business does not mean that because of ownership this one person has all the answers nor does it make a person more knowledgable.

I am quite certain you lose customers because of your attitude you have and the choices you make regarding your customer services.

Kitty
Coinwash.com

[Anonymous]

Boxer,

chill out and give cleanclothes are break. You both have valid points.
Customers in NJ are tough sometimes.

Cleanclothes laundromat- http://morristownlaundry.com/default.aspx
I think its about 1200-1500sqft

[pete f]

Von Hef..
I know you are midwest, but not sure how big of a town. You may not experiance the urban city problems I have with homeless, and maybe if you are in a small town you can be the local bank, smile at everyone who walks in to get some change to use elswhere. There are owners who like people to get change so they convert quarters to dollars and feel it is easier to count. I only know at my coin stores I need to have quarters available to the customers to spend in my store, people walking in and getting $5, $10, sometimes $30-$40 out of my changer to take somewhere, well, it is stealling to me. Many of them are getting quarters to use in thier apartment laundry. They are to cheap or lazy to bring the clothes to my mat, but they get change. We have a bank on every corner, but you have to stand in line. It also cost a certain amount of money to maintain and clean these changer, everytime it is used is a cost. Now Kitty can customer service all she wants and try to talk some coin monger into doing wash, but I have found stopping the changer in the middle of dispensing coin works real well. The customer says your changer shorted me, I tell them to bring in thier clothes and I will start machines for them. Most have to run home and gather laundry.They are not customers nor will they ever be.

Boxer.. you may have misread cleanclothes, he never stole anything. A lady, who he asked not to come in, came in nayway and try to circumvent his attendents and "steal" change out of his machine. Well, his machine was a card dispendor, so now she has a $20 laundry card. Everyone needs to do laundry, so why is this a problem? Because she was not a customer or ever will be! She just wanted to use his store for her own gains. She has the card, he never took anything away from her., she was warned to stay away. I probably would have had the police tresspass warrant her just for good measure! Cleanclothes talks about bad customers, and says he don't care about them. You say you have 5 laundry mats, don't you see customers who are not worth having? they do more damage than they pay for! Maybe in your old counrty you need ever last cent to live, but here in USA we are free to choose who we do business with. I have not thrown many people out, partly becuase I am unattended and have not caught them, but if I did out the door they go. The guy who comes in from a roofing job and dry his clothes in your dryer, filling it with tar balls so the next customers clothes are ruined, you think you want him back again?
These customers are sub-human, they destroy all you work for and have no respect for your property.These are the point I, and cleanclothes make. Not every customer is a good customer, yet most are. How about the person who comes in off the street everyday to use your bathroon? He makes a mess of it, deficating all over, clogs the toilet. When he leaves do we give him superiour customer service and try to win his business or do we kick his ass out the door and call the cops to tresspass him? Keeping your mat free of these peoples is better for your business in the long run.

Kitty--
>>There may be change mongers in the world but when you the owner is in the store and you see this happening as you stated with this woman you had the golden opportunity to speak to her with respect and talk to her about your business and why you have the policies in place. <
You just need to own a store to understand how this statement makes no sense and does not work.

[Kitty]

We were not talking about every customer nor the reputation of certain types. What we were discussing was the scenario CC layed out and what happened with one particular woman. I do not believe you need to give change out to everyone that asks, and I do not believe owners should be a slave to their customers, however I do expect if you want business you should respect your clientelle. What was conveyed in this thread showed a lack of respect and you will not change my mind on this issue.

A name on a deed to a laundromat will never give me the understanding of what you are trying to convey and my name on a deed will not give me anymore business sense than I have today although I continue to learn everyday. It is simply a peice of paper, the smarts come from actual experience and that I have plenty of. Have no mistake gentleman I did have ownership papers of a business, in my day the business had employees, inventory and daily sales but that does not in any way give the knowledge necessary to proivide good service nor the degree to success

[Von Hef]

Pete,
You are correct that I am in a smaller town (13,000 - 15,000). It is mildly irratating when the change mongers come in for the same reasons you listed... but everybody that does this IS a potential customer. I will not risk offending a potential customer, or their relatives, or friends (small town gossip) over change machine usage. If someone is destructive to my equipmement, rude to my customers or any other form of offense... I will ask them to leave and not to return otherwise, they can use the machine. I have people that come in just to use the soda and vend machines... heckava deal! :)

[Boxer]

Boxer,

chill out and give cleanclothes are break. You both have valid points.
Customers in NJ are tough sometimes.

Cleanclothes laundromat- http://morristownlaundry.com/default.aspx
I think its about 1200-1500sqft


Thanks this seems like a small town
and small store to boot.
But I have a little store that kicks.
My be your town needs another ;)

[hithere]

Pete you hit the nail on the head!

We have a store policy no cash refunds, clearly posted. If people don't like it they are free to go elsewhere - it is how we choose to operate the business. Kitty is free to not like the policy, but that is too bad we really don't care. It works for us.

As far as refunds, we give plenty of them - maybe more than most stores, just not as cash. Excluding our frequent washer program I checked the logs for the last 3 years and we on average give refunds/free service to the tune of over $20 a week. Many times I will see a customer with many machines and just start one for them for free when I am in the store. That is part of CVM which Kitty has no clue about.

The spew about excellent customer service is a one trick poney. There are customers that get it, and others that don't because they don't warrant it. In kitty's perfect makebelieve world you treat all customers the same. In the real world, where a business exists to make money, you treat a customer that uses five washers every week very differently than the one that comes in once a month, spills soap all over the floor, leaves nails in their clothing to ruin your equipment, and constantly complains that the dryers are not that hot. That customer I want to piss off and drive them to the laundromat that the Kitty's of this world operate. Like most successful businesses there are customers that I want and many others that I don't want in my store. That is the reality of life.

The spew on excellent customer service and satisfaction reminds me of the secretary that is always telling the boss how he is doing one thing wrong. He puts up with it, but eventually fires her because he is sick and tired of hearing her tunnel vision. Sure she might have a good idea in that one area, but he has to run all aspects of the business and makes constant trade-offs in its operation that the secretary just doesn't see or doesn't understand. That is why he is the boss, it is his business and he can run it any way he likes. Business does not exists to delight every customer, it exists to make a profit. You do what you need to do in order to acheive that goal.

one customer ask return because she said she put $4 of coins in 75lb washer and she changed her mind not to use 75lb, wants to use 35lb.
in this case, should we refund her?

Can you share with us what is store refund policy you have?
Do your attendant have to tell complaining customer your telephone number and your name(owner name) if customer ask?

how can you handle various mean and BIG mouth problemetic customers?

thank you

I agree 100%