how to make an offer w/o water bills

[Anonymous]

I have just returned from a meeting with the sellers broker. He said that the seller doesn't want to release past water bills or any other pertanent financial info untill an offer is in place. I already have the P&L from last year (not broken down monthly) that I can get the rent, utilites (not split by water, gas, electric) and payroll from. But at this point I think this is pretty useless, because I don't have the "meat and potatoes". My question is, how can I submit an offer going in totally blind? I know that if I do, the contract will have to have various escape clauses if I find things aren't what I expected once I get more info. obvoisly(?) asking price is too much, but I don't want to come in with a low offer that gets laughed at. Is it fairly common to not release any info w/o a contract? I know that I can get water #'s from the city, but I'm not sure how long it would take, and I'm also genuinely interested if this is the norm, because this is the first mat that I have been interested in and possibly able to afford. Any help would be greatly appreciated, and I have very thick skin so don't pull any punches. Thanks

[amartlock]

To start you have to assume the seller's revenue numbers are accurate. Be sure to put a clause in the purchase agreement of "Subject to buyers approval of the business records." Once the PA is signed by both parties, then get the water bills and do the water analysis. If you need to adjust the price, then this is the time to do it.

[Anonymous]

You can also (at least in my area) get copies of the water bills as a matter of public record. In my town you have to go fill out some form and they'll give you copies of the bills.

I'd be suspicious and go that route !

- John

[Rich]

Thats the norm here. Make the offer based on the numbers provided by seller. But have a clause, offer subject to verification. I looked at many stores here and only found a few that would give any more then you got from your seller before a contract was signed.

[kbc747]

It's simple, offer on the equipment and as if the mat was doing no business. You will be asked why and say I can only offer according to information provided, give more and I'm sure the offer will go up.

[pete f]

You said they provide a P & L, so you have something to go from. Water bills are a call to the water dept around here. Your cluase should have some due dilliagence, verification, inspections, etc built in. MAke the offer based on what you have, prove them wrong to re adjust it.