Re-built machines -What company can we trust.

[Sunflower]

So I got my handy little "yellow pages" out to start calling around to compare prices on new front loaders...

And then I thought- HMMM- someone mentioned used or re-built machines to me before, why not call some these type dealers...

ONLY I don't know who to trust... Who will stand behind what they sell? Who really re-builds? Etc... (They all seem to be on the east coast and we are on the west...)

Any thoughts out there??? Thanks, Anna

[Sunflower]

I was reading some threads on the "other" bulletin board and noted a few people said it's not worth it to buy used machines from across the country w/virtually no warranty. They said buy new and get the full warranty and tax depretiation...

[Buddy_Amoroso]

I always buy new but I have a cousin who always buys re-built machines.

When I visit his store he is always "tinkering" on a machine and complaining that he has to change a drain or something on a machine. I don't have time to spend working on machines like he does.

My cousin cash flow is better than mine (he pays cash for re-built and I finance new machines). The tax advantages and the depreciation are very important to me to help shelter other investments. I also own my land while he rents his. My strategy is to manage my stores for ten years and sell the laundry business while renting the store. I believe that my long-term strategy is more profitable than my cousin’s (only time will tell).

Different strokes for different folks. It just depends on your objectives.

If immediate cash flow is important and you have time to do your own repairs then the re-built machines make a lot of sense.

[Sunflower]

What your saying makes a lot of sense...

And by the way, I got a quote on Generation 5 W75's for 1100 each plus 385 shipping (2 per pallet) from NYLaundry

BUT

I got a quote for Brand NEW Gen 6 W620's for 2180 each plus 75 shipping each machine. That's 4-500 more per each new machine plus a real warranty and tax depreciation.

We own our land too and have the same thoughts as far as selling the business and keeping the land (unless of course WE JUST LOVE IT).

So it seems after my research and opinions thus far the NEW seems much smarter.

[anonymous]

It does not matter whether you pay cash or check or buy new or used, you can still take depreciation on any equipment you buy. Sure when you buy new you pay more and have a larger write-off, but a write-off is only worth your marginal tax rate not the full value of the write-off. In general one should not make business decisions just on the basis of tax savings. The decision of new versus used should be based on many other things.

[Sunflower]

Share some of your experience with me please....
What do you think the choice of new vs used should be based on?

We are new at this. We already own two other businesses and time is a problem... (that's another part of my thinking... plus if we do sell the business in 10 years the machines will only be 10 years old as opposed to 20 or so...)

[Boxer]

NYLaundry NO I have never heard a good thing about them.

and you will never hear that at the CLA either, use the search engines.

[Sunflower]

Thanks Boxer!

[TotoMongo]

Thanks Boxer!


Sunflower, everything I have read about NYLaundry (either here or on the CLA board) has been negative. Caveat emptor!

[Sunflower]

I should have guessed when he answered the phone, NEW YORK! instead of Hello, how may we help you or something!!! Hah ha.

Anyway, my point was, if that's the average price, it really seems New is better!

[kbc747]

For myself its quite simple, when was the last time I replaced a machine I would have paid someone money for? Hmmm, never I must say and so there is the only reason you need to buy new, old is just someone elses problem they got tired of dealing with. Sometimes when they replace a whole section you might find a couple to decent machines but never never okay never buy used sight unseen. Its like when you have 20 of something and are replacing 5 of them, which 5 do you replace? Or when a laundry goes broke, bet he was spending like crazy to keep his equipment in tip top shape for the bank. Buy new and you will be further ahead everytime.

[Buddy_Amoroso]

There is a third option that I also like. Buying repoed equipment from a finance company. In the CLA often there are ads for repoed equipment that is relatively new.

buddy amoroso

[Ken]

I am cheap,80-90% I bought are used,I bought from store out of business,lose their lease or serviceman,I ask dealer or serviceman for the model ,buy them as is.I or my parttime hadyman rebuilt them.A lot servicemen just check the bearing,never did complete rebuilt anyway.
I feel that is ok why fix something not broke but they should not charge you as rebuild machine.
One serviceman just called me last week,want to sell me some good shape,rebuilt Wascomat W184,when I check ,I know they all have original bearing,never rebuilt.Unless you can rebuild them yourself,buy new may be a better idea.
Rebuilt any machines and resell is not an easy business,I am in resell used video arcade game business,I always try to talk my customers into a new monitor for extra $150 since I never know when the old one is going out.I sold a game to PA,monitor went out,I am in IL,I had to hire a guy in PA,sent a 80# monitor to there....
The same rule apply to laundry machines,I believe 80% rebuild machine's bearing,timer are not rebuilt since they are expensive parts to change and you never know how long they will last.
I never buy anything from NY laundry but know someone did,the Wascomat 124s were great,one of best rebuilt job I have seen,the stack dryers were not rebuilt but the owners said check out ,work great....the person spent over $5000 on the parts and laber for 7,8 dryers,never work right.They are looking for new dryers now after spent over $15000 on used dryers.
Coin OP USA even worse,they just took your money,never send anything,Ebay closed all his account,he (Jim V) open a new account sold junkey car until Ebay closed him down again.
I bought a lot used stuff,was selling a lot used,not rebuild laundry machines in my area,when I was rebuilt my store,I bought out a whole store's machines,keep what I want,sold what I don't need.still sell used video games,I am a buyer and a seller,I found a lot great deal,good people to deal but also some not so good one.

[Rich]

I have bought new, and used machines. I myself will probably never buy new again. I bought new from 2 different distributers and both have left a sour taste in my mouth. I would also never buy used site unseen. I have bought used Wasco washers and used Huebsch stacks from NY Laundry and they have been fine. But I would never buy used if I could not go check them myself. And I wouldn't buy anything much older then 5 years.

[pete f]

I have bought some used stuff in the past, a store lost a lease, a parts dealer once had some good used equipment. It was all local. If you can't find something nearby, the used stuff looks worse. I am sure there is plenty of used equipment on the west coast, just keep digging and asking. Find something about 5 years old, you are fine. I have some Wasco W-74's you can have for free in a couple months. Maybe even 75's, I had not really looked at the name plates. I know i am junking them all and putting in new.

[Sunflower]

We decided to buy used sight unseen is STUPID.

I love the things I hear about Wascomat plus we already have 4 in the store BUT the nearest dealer is 6 hours away. I just asked for a quote on 10 20lber plus a 50 lber and he gave what I thought was a great price but he was not too keen on driving over here to install them. I'm sure we could figure it out but we are majorly stapped in the time department. (He was willing to do it for 150-200 a machine if we really wanted him to.)

(Personally, I'd love to take jump on your W74/75 offer)

Anyway, we also had an offer from Huebsch. Now here's what I found interesting. They have solid steel welded frames (Wascomat now has riveted.) Their 20 lbers use 22 lbs of water as opposed to Wascomats 31. This distributor is 4 hours from us and is willing to come out and chat/advise for free and then install for free. I understand Huebsch hasn't been out more than 10 years as A WHOLE MACHINE so it's hard to be the judge of what it's lifespan w/be.

I read the favor polls on machines and comments.

I noted the many posts on Huebsch washers not starting when coins were inserted. I called the regional manager over here who of course assured me that electrical problem was addressed in mid 05 and is no longer of concern... (Could be BS. Who knows...)

I also read what you all say about distributors. And I can at least get the 4 hr guy out here for a price after the install.

Also Pete, we have heeded your advice and decided to keep the newest tops (Whirlpools).

Any thoughts/advice? Thanks, Anna

[Sunflower]

I agree... Seems buying locally or at least SIGHT-SEEN would be a wise move.

[laundryboy]

What is common here is that if you have some background and are dealing locally in the used/rebuild market, you will come out ahead.

I have several reputable services groups that call me and I call them. They'll call me if a decent laundry is closing and I'll call them and let them know what I'm looking for or have to get rid of.

If you are in this business for the long run, gget the word out that you'll always look at GOOD used equipment. When you purcase an existing laundromat you are really buying a bunch of used equiment. Same diligence goes when buying the stuff off a trunk.

Used equipment should be HEAVILY discounted 1/5th 1/4 the cost of new at a MAXIMUM. Don't ever get traped into the idea you sould pay more. Equipment is out there. Good, gently used eqipment is out there. If your into expansion, like Ken said - buy a whole store and use what you need, save what you want, and sell what your not going to use.

[Anonymous]

I would like to know how Huebsch has solved the problem of non starting machines after money is inserted. I have this problem and it has been a real pain.

[Sunflower]

Thanks for the good advice guys.

If you want to know what Huebsch says about their fix on the start problem, email me a private message and I will give you the regional manager's number (but I suspect the techline could answer it better). All he really said was that they ended that problem in production mid-05 and that it was an electrical part issue. This is just my opinion but I would think that might fall under some kind of recall issue...

Anna

[Ken]

recall?unless is a safty issue or someone sue the factory,none of them will recall anything,if you are lucky they sell a upgrade kit to fix it.
SQ has bad paint job a few years ago,all the toploader's top rusty out,if you call,they may replace you a new top,if you don't,they won't fix it.
Amteck Big Boy offered free new door and lock even after the factory stopped making those washer because they got sued.

[Sunflower]

Well, that's really too bad. Just another example of how the little guy takes it...

[CharlieS]

I have purchased several machines from NY laundry. The ones I purchased were not rebuilt, but have worked very well for me. I went there to pick them up, and had the opportunity to look over their operation. I was impressed. They do a pretty thorough rebuild job.

I will almost certainly buy from them again. There is a thread in the archives on my visit. Search for NY Laundry.

Charlie