Frontloader rear access

[Lar Hylobates]

Typically fronts are installed with some sort of access to the rear.
I recently visited a new store with a distributor, there were many 30, 40 & 50 pound machines installed back to back with NO room in the rear other than drain space.

He says its cheaper to have the mechanic pull the machine to work on it than it is to "waste" the real estate.

I don't necessarily disagree with him. In two years I have never had a case that we had to get into the rear of one of my machines. I personally prefer to hire mechanics for this stuff anyway, but would like some feedback on this concept.

[Anonymous]

Interesting theory, but I would never do it. What do you do when a belt breaks - and it will. GM made a Chevy Monza in a V8 version in I believe 1975 and the only way to change one of the spark plugs was to pull the engine. I guess if you were the original owner and were only going to own the car for two years that would be fine.

You state you have had no problems with new machines in the first two year, but that is to be expected. As belts start to break do you really want to be pulling all the machines?

[anonymous]

You also have to make sure you have easy access to inlet hoses and the fuse in the rear. I frequently have to change the inlet hose screens.

[pete f]

I know Dexter recomends 24 inches for service, but that includes pulling a motor. You really only need about 8" for belt or water valve service, which hopefully are the only things you will be doing before you replace the machines again. And if you got to pull a machine for a new motor, the pull part will be like a install, around $200-$275 depending on size.

I have 1 mat that started as a 24" work space, fronts on one side, backed up by tops. When I put in the IPSO's, they had to be hard plumbed, and are held down by a bolt to keep from walking. So now I have FL machines back to back, about 12" between, and that 12" is my bulkhead with water and power lines. No problem, beach real estate is not cheap, I agree with your distrib. I would rather give a customer the extra room to do laundry every week in front than the guy who has to fix the machine every 4-5 years. It does make some things not much fun, but you don't do any work yourself anway.. You may have to plan ahead, I left off the bottom 2 screws of the back plate on the IPSO beacuse I knew I could never reach them if I needed to replace a belt. It is no problem doing that. I can get to the other 4 on each side. You got to think about things like that if you kick space.

[Kitty]

Not that I like getting behind the machines, but there has been times I have needed to, and definately BD has had to. Belts, and the drain valve that leads to the pit has occasioanlly guncked up a time or two on several machines......The new store that was built this past year has no room either and I too wondered how they fixed certain mechanics when it was physically impossible for one to get behind the fronts. Every store Dave has is set the same with a wide area between the fronts. As I said in another thread we have pits that are between the fronts. Access is on one side and the electrical panel is on the other. Works for us, but we have lots of space..

[Lar Hylobates]

Pete,

I think there would have to be 12" or so for installation and plumbing purpose anyway. I don't know how some monkey is going to hang down in there to install the drains, but it is probably the way I'll go. I need the isle space and really don't care about the mechanic or his cost.

I was more concerned about the feasibilty of pulling a 40 pound machine in an open laundry and how it would affect business.

Kirby, in two years I mean the last two years no problems. Some machines are 17 years old, 10 years old, 5 years old, etc.

[anonymous]

I just got replace belt on Dexter T400 washer 2 of them .. repair person did open back panel only 2, 3 screw to change it(he did open top panel too) it was not bad, but he said it is much better to have some space to work on front loader.. now, washers are not making " knock.knock " noice..

[Kitty]

It seems space is an issue with many laundries.....the new laundry that was built near us, has very little aisle room. No room for two carts and hardly enough room for several people. It seemed very crowded. As I said they have no space behind the fronts at all, they crowded the most machines they could. They obviously do not do the work themselves either, but I would guess any mechanic contracted to repair would charge more for the hassle of getting to any mecahical problems from behind. They offer very little sitting room, table or chairs. I always thought the idea is to have a good flow and seek continuous cycles, as many times as possible. A store that offers areas that are easily congested and crowded would seem to me to be set up efficiently as to the amount of machines in place but not near as effective with gaining a crowd of people and retaining them.

[anonymous]

HL, I left very little room behind mine. You can do what I did and it works quite well. Build a small platform that is the same hight as the base for the washers and when you need to pull one out just unbolt it slid it forward onto the platform climb inbehind and your home free. It works great and you can do repairs while you are open. It should not add more than 30 mins. to the repair bill. Use the room for the every day customers.

Gary

[Kitty]

That seems like it would work very well. However, how many times have you had the bolts rust and have you ever had trouble removing or replacing the machine back into the original space?

[anonymous]

Kitty, So far I have only had to pull out the soft mount F/Ls and it worked great for them. My hard mounts are on steel bases so the bolts are not a big deal I can just cut them off if I need to. I guess if you have concrete pads that would pose a problem. I will give that one some thought.

Gary

[anonymous]

At one store I have complete rear access to all 30 lb and 50 lb washers. My doubles back up to tops but it doesn't give me the room to pull a motor becuase the water pipes are in the way. At the second store, all wasco doubles and triple we have all machines back to back, 9 doubles and three triples. Becuase of the small space it is the only way to go for us. As for changing belts, on the wascos you can change them without removing the back panel or unbloting the machine if space in the rear is tight. You can take control console out to give you space and slip a new one on from teh top. I haven't tried it yet, but have seen it done. The only time you shoul have to unbolt is for a motor repair or tub bearing. If I had the space 24" rear access would be ideal for service, but if space is at a premium for you I would cut that number down

[mike]

I'm very surprised to hear that so many of you would leave no space, and think that the repairman will just pull out the machine. I can tell you that my repair guy wouldn't even answer my calls if I did that ! (he made me install a row of fluorescent lights behind my dryers !)

I agree that it is wasted space, particularly if you have the "galley" layout, as my stores are. Ideally, in a wider store you could share the service alley, by having frontloaders back to back. Even better would be roll away counters (on wheels) that would come up to the back of the front loaders.

[Lar Hylobates]

Thanks for the input. Makes me feel better about doing them back to back. I'll check with wasco on the Gen 6 service requirements and go from there.

Can the drain assembly of a wasco gen 6 be disassembled and reassembled from the front side before rolling the machine in and out?

[Rondo]

The Gen6 has eazy access from the front to service the drain valve. One other thing all Wasco's have to be unbolted and layed on the floor on the fronts to rebuild(bearings) as far as the drains you could use a flex hose for hook up. Since I do all my own service I'll always give myself the room. Really I never thought about It, but you could probably change a belt on a Wasco from the top since the tops come completely off.

[CharlieS]

Some interesting thoughts. I haven't really thought about the cost of the space dedicated to maintenance access. I do most of my own work. In my new store, I put half the machines down one wall. I purchased a truss which forms the wall above the machines, but leaves them completely open below the truss. There is 30" behind the wall (Ok, I'm 6'3", 280, I need a little space here OK?). The result is that you can walk behind all of these machines and work on them very easily.

I have TVs recessed into these same walls above the machines, so I do use the space for that.

However, 50' x 1.5, (I would still use at least 12" for plumbing and access from the top, means that I am dedicating 75 square feet at a cost of about $550 a year, just to this access. That pays for a lot of maintenance time. I probably would have been better to make the aisles wider and done the top down squiggle for repairs.

I love this board for making me rework my thought patterns.

Charlie

[Rondo]

Charles, "the top down squiggle" that's funny as hell. Me and you brother. I've did a little squiggling too in my time. ;)

[Lar Hylobates]

Well I changed my first belt today.

Wasco emerald 125. Had to do it from the top as I did not have one of those fully star screw drivers and the backs won't really come off anyway as I recall from the installation. The bulkheads need replacing here too as they are leaning on the machines.

Took me 2 1/2 hours, one helper, a crow bar and 6 foot 2x4 to get the new belt on.

As I was in there, I can't see anyway to reach the rear most bolts for removal of the machine in this "remove the machine theory" from the front. The motor is in the way on the right side and the left side is just plain out of ANY reach. Maybe a socket extension that is 4 foot long from the top would work if there is such a thing.

Definitely will not do that again. Next time the mechanic says he can't make it today I will just wait.

[Anonymous]

That is why you don't mount machines with no space behind them. While it is physically possible to do what you did with the W125, there is no way in hell you could do it with a W185 or W245 - they have multiple belts and you have to be on the ground behind the machine with a lot of strength to do the job.

[Rondo]

I think I posted this before, Gen 5s and 6s only need 4 bolts (the front and middle that's part of the Uni-frame). The very back bolt holes are for shipping only! If you notice the back 2 holes are not part of the Uni-frame.

[Lar Hylobates]

Rondo, I do remember the post, but obviously did not know what you were referring to due to the fact that I had not looked in one before.

Mine has the 6 bolts. I assume that they are not hurting anything?

[Lar Hylobates]

Kirby,

for 40 pound and less, if only motor and bearing replacement requires rear access, I will be more than happy to mount machines with no access to the rear and expect to pay more for repairs as the machine must be removed.

The drain still puzzles me. I just can't see two feet of 3" flex line doing anything but causing trouble. This I'll have to look into.

[Rondo]

HL, I too mounted some Gen 5s with the 6 bolts and when My dist. tech came to deliver my dryers he ask me why I used 6 and that you only need the 4.
When I bought the Gen 6s It plainly said on the box that the back holes are for shipping only. If I remember in the Gen 5s installation manuals it shows using all 6. Chock that up to Wasco's misprints and there is alot of them in the manuals.

Kirby, I haven't used a flex line yet, but I'm willing to try. :D