Neptune Door Leaks [Archive] - Coinwash The key to a successful Laundromat Business.

MSKLAUNDRY.

05-14-2004, 05:35 PM

I hate too say this but check out the Maytag class action suit link below.

http://www.maytagproblems.com/

Most likely the wax motor has failed and has also taken out the driver transistor and resistor. The board is located at the top right just above the tumbler on the stack unit. On the stand alone I suppose its behind the control panel.

Open it up and look at the board for a resistor that is burnt. It will be labeled R11 or D11 (I forget). Its value is 3.9 k ohm 1/4 watt available from www.Mouser.com or www.digikey.com. The driver triac Q6 on the board is a MAC97A6 also available from the above companies.

Here is a link that has a good picture of the board.

http://appliancehelp.hypermart.net/images/DCP_0015wArrows.JPG

If you want me to fix it then let me know. A friend of mine had the same problem a few months ago, also.

Note, it is possible for the board to still be good. So check it out. If you see the resistor burned then it probably toast.

CharlieS

05-15-2004, 12:03 AM

The commercial model of the Neptune has a drain for the front boot. The home model does not. This would certainly tend to create more mold.

However, the drain also creates problems with the longevity of the boot. Maytag told me last year that the boot lasts 7 times longer if you disconnect the drain, leave the plug in the (new) boot, and plug the drain. However, now I wonder if this won't cause mold issues.

On the flip side, there is very little evidence that mold creates a health hazard. The mold problem so far has mainly centered around mold in houses literally eating away the house.

Charlie

MSKLAUNDRY.

05-15-2004, 09:08 AM

Lets trying not to get off topic here. I posted that link because of the lock assy./computer problems.
Yes you are right about the plug in the boot issue. Mold doesn't usually develop in the commercial units mainly because they are usually used more often and people tend to leave the doors open in a laundromat.
The door lock issue/computer problem is one of the things that was listed in the case action case.

pete f

05-16-2004, 01:36 AM

I had a friend that had the same problems you say. They ended up replacing the timer, wax motor, and board I had them send the board to Mountan Elctronic for repair, they replaced 3 blown compoments on it. It seems all 3 blow out. Mountain elctronic does commercial boards, but they agree to fix this one, I guess the maytag repairman replaces all the home boards @ $180 ea. My friend was quoted around $500 to fix the washer, that was after needing the timer ($75)

I think it was about $60 to fix the board

Joe

10-03-2004, 12:31 PM

I have been working with my Maytag service rep for 1 year on 22 new Neptune machines design flaw. The bleach cup siphon problem. The bleach cup will be filled with water at the end of a cycle causing confusion for the next customer. Maytag has tryed cutting a slot in the stem of the cup so the sypen would start sooner. Didn't fix it. Changed a circut board, didn't fix it and now wants to drill a small hole in the bottem of the cup to allow this unwanted water to drip out after the cycle is done. This seems a bit half assed to me. It is my belief that this is a probem with all maytags of this year model because the Maytag service rep said he sees it all over his district. I would like to send a certified letter to Maytag (cc to the local distributer and the service manager) telling them of this problem in writting and the failed steps to fix it. I'm sure there are many of these defective models all over the US and if they can not fix them soon I'm considering looking into a class action. I'm willing to give Maytag an oportunity to fix it, however, since it is over a year now my patience is comming to an end. Do others have this problem or any suggestions on how else to work this out. Thank you for this great forum! Joe

pete f

10-03-2004, 03:37 PM

there have been discussions on this, try the search tool. I know Gary C cut something to make them siphpon better, and there was another fix. I only have the problem when the customers dump POWDER bleach like Clorox II into the tub and it cakes up and sits there..

Anonymous

10-04-2004, 04:43 PM

I only have the problem when the customers dump POWDER bleach like Clorox II into the tub and it cakes up and sits there..

Ditto, that's my only problem as well. It says "Liquid bleach only" in
about 3 places and they still put the powder in....

Well I guess if they were really smart they would own their own machines.

PeterH

10-08-2004, 11:27 AM

My response to Joe from this last June...

This issue happens when the water level is adjusted after the initial fill. If the cycle is at a point where if water is to enter the machine some is diverted to the dispenser, and if enough water is injected into the machine to satisfy the water level but not enough to fill the compartments and trigger the syphon, then you have water left in your dispensers. Nothing really that you can do about it. I have the same issue with the softener dispensers in my Gen 5 Wascomats and with my liquid dispensers and softener dispensers in my Gen 6 machines. If a customer says something, have your attendants flush it out for them with some water.

Joe

10-08-2004, 12:15 PM

I have an unattended matt so flushing for the customers is not a viable option for me. These machines where designed not to have water left in the bleach cup(unless its blocked) they do. To me this is a design flaw and needs to be corrected. These are very expensive machines and should work correctly and they do not. I am not willing to just except this flaw and no one else should either. Maytag needs to make these machines work, period! My machines are the MAH21PD model new AUG 03. The maytag service tech says he sees this problem all over San Diego and it must be nation wide. I guess everyone just lives with it. Frankly I just don't get it. I am considering a class action if I can not get Maytag to own up to this problem and fix it. Thanks for letting me vent ;-)!

KJD

10-08-2004, 06:03 PM

What's the techs views on this problem?

Marc ? TTLES ?

I was considering a very large purchase of this exact model because I thought all the bugs were worked out by now. But I may be reconsidering.

PeterH

10-08-2004, 06:36 PM

The bleach dispensers Continental and Wascomat have this problem, as do all domestic frontload machines. It also applies to the fabric softener dispenser, altho' you don't see a problem usually with them because the clothes are wet and the water lever doesn't need much satisfying after the initial fill. The only fix for this is two fold:

1) Put an increment in the timer so that the compartment is flushed between the wash and the first rinse with about 10 seconds of water, enough to refill the compartment and let it syphon it out.

2) Ensure that after that point, no water is diverted to the dispenser.

It would behoov Maytag et al to listen to their users and give these ideas to their R&D departments. This would be a 2 second design fix.

Joe

10-08-2004, 08:24 PM

I spoke today with the service manager and the fix they want to do involves drilling a hole in the bleach cup? This is the best they can come up with so far.....He says it will be a small hole so it will hold the bleach till the wash cycle.......Is it me or is this crazy, I'm at the point where I will try anything. If you are considering buying these machines I would ask if this problem has been fixed in the new ones or else you'll soon be drilling holes too............

MSKLAUNDRY.

10-09-2004, 09:17 AM

The answer is, I have yet to see any machine that will 100% of the time, flush down any dispenser with a siphon tube. Mostly because customers can't seem to aim there powered detergent into the correct compartment. So until you get perfect customers that follow simple instructions you are not going to have a perfectly operating machine.

Joe

10-09-2004, 11:22 AM

Marc, while I agree with what your saying these machines do not work right. As I have said this particular problem has nothing to do with improper customer use. The machines add water to the cup sometime after the finnal rinse and it is not enough to start the siphon. So the water sits for the next customer to ponder. The cups and siphon's are clean and clear except fo the water. If you pour a bit into the cup to start the siphon action the cups drain perfect. Something is wrong with these machines and Maytag knows it. The big question is what are they going to do about it and as of now they want to drill a little whole at the bottem of the bleach cup so the water will drain out slow enough to allow a customer to still have some bleach enter the machine at proper time. Seems a bit half assed to me...........

MSKLAUNDRY.

10-09-2004, 01:03 PM

I assume this is what you distrubutor wants to do. Have you called Jim Hunter from Maytag and ask him?

His # is 641-787-6854.

Pete_tx

10-09-2004, 02:27 PM

Yea, that's the answer. Then next year when you go to buy another machine the price will be higher to reflect the cost of the lawsuit.

If it's really successful, other manufacturer's will raise their prices also in expectation of future lawsuits.

What a great idea!!!

Joe

10-10-2004, 11:01 AM

So Pete what do you suggest? It has been over a year with a defective product that is costing me money? Do I just suck it up? When people will not use the machines with water in the cup and no others are availble they walk out with their money. The class action would only be as a very last resort. I've been working with the local rep for over a year to no avail. I assume he has at his disposal all of Maytag corporate service people. Marc, I was given the name of Warren Long at Maytag as a contact by the distributor who sold me the machines. He is on vacation this week I will call him next week and I'll try Jim Hunter again. I called him once, months ago, left a message and never heard from him. All my contacts with local Maytag people have been very professional and all seem sincere in wanting to fix this. The problem is the machines are still broke after a year and I'm loosing patience. What is a reasonable time to allow a fix from Maytag 2 years, 3 years? My gut tells me Maytag knows what needs to be done and doesn't want to spend the money to fix these thousands of machines. So they are comming up with these cheep fixes of grinding stems and drillng holes. I'm sorry if it the correct fix is going to cost Maytag some money, that is not my problem. I want my very expensive Maytag Neptunes to work as advertized, period! That's all I want, doesn't seem unreasonable to me what say you Pete? What's your way of dealing with this, I'm all ears or eyes ;-).

Gary C

10-10-2004, 08:57 PM

Pete f is right. I had the same problem and maytag could not figure it out. After some messing with it I figured it out and let maytag know about it. Pull out the sifin tube cut off 1/4 inch and put it back together. Try it on one if it works for you then do the rest. I can't remember if I cut any off the stand inside the tube. I almost never have a problem with them anymore. I am very happy with them and I am picking up another 8 next month. They are great on utilities.

Gary

MSKLAUNDRY.

10-10-2004, 10:54 PM

While I cannot speak about the distributor in your area and there proficiency in resolving issues. I can say for the most part you are and have been wasting your time if you think that your local distributor is going to help you any further. I suggest you contact Jim at Maytag or the other fellow since he is out of town right now. Both people are more than qualified to help you remedy this situation. Be prepared to describe the problem completely and accurately.

Having worked as a tech at a Maytag dist I can assure you that Jim Hunter or fellow colleague(s) will be happy to help you rectify this situation.

Also, when you say Maytag said "to do this and that" are you refering to Maytag or the Maytag distributor? Big difference.

MichaelCa

10-12-2004, 01:37 AM

I couldn't agree with MSKLAUNDRY more.

A local dist. can put you 'OFF' a Mfr. undeservedly (but understandably).
My local Maytag dist. is just such.
Their level of non-support & arrogant attitude is breathtaking.

I had to hold my nose when buying from them...

The (only) other Maytag dist. in our large state is the Polar Opposite:
Fast, responsive, very friendly, Very helpful even when they don't have to be, and they're even Cheaper!
Unfortunately, Maytag has strict territories...

Bottom line: You have to deal with the Mfr. & EVEN THEN, with the right individual.
It was difficult, because i had to find their names out on my own: Jim Hunter is very helpful, and there are a couple others.
I believe they will share every possible solution with you.

+++++++++++++++++++++

Some interesting Links on Neptunes:
DISCLAIMER: i have nothing against Maytag, i also think they make the BEST TopLoader for coinlaundries. I believe it's important to be fully aware & informed as an owner.

http://www.maytagproblems.com/
http://www.maytagfrontloadsettlement.com/
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/homeowners/maytag_wash.html
http://cbsnewyork.com/shamestories/local_story_134131218.html
(CBS Shame On You: Maytag's Moldy Washers)

Joe

10-13-2004, 01:15 AM

I tried Jim again and his machine says he is out of town for a few weeks. I was also given the number of someone named Warren at maytag who is out of the office till friday. I'll call Jim when he gets back and report on my progress. Thanks again for the insight, hopefully Jim will be more helpful. Like I have said before every one I talk to seems very sincere in wanting to fix this but after a year I am losing patience. Maybe my service people don't know how to grind the bleach stem correctly who knows??? Oh when I say maytag, I am saying my maytag distributer. Thanks again for all the feedback, just to be fair I do like the machines and so do the customers I just want them to work right. Joe

Gary C

10-13-2004, 08:28 AM

Joe, Did you try what I sugjested? If you did let us know how it worked.

Gary

Joe

10-13-2004, 10:51 AM

Gary, We must have different models. My bleach cup and siphen and softner cup and siphen is one piece of hard plastic. There is no tube to pull out. There is a plastic molded stem that is in each cup. The distributor ground down the hard plastic stem trying to get the siphen to start with just the not needed water in the cup, didn't work. This is an intermittent problem. When I check my store, which I do several times a day every day there will be anywhere from 2 to 10 machines of 22 that have water in the bleach cup. So I rap on the bleach dish with my fingers which will start the siphen action and drain the cups. I was shown how to do this by the service tech who came out. This is the same one who says he sees this all over. before he showed me how to rap on the cup I had to either get a bucket with some water and pour it into the bleach cup to start the action or start the machine in test mode to flush the cup or sop the water out of the cup with a spunge. Not fun! The rapping is much easyer so I've been a rapping fool the past 10 months. I'm so good sometime I can get the siphen going with one well placed rap. Kinda like the Fonz cool huh. Anyway I look forward to speaking with Jim Hunter, as much fun as all this rapping is I'd just assume have the machines work all by themselves.

pete f

10-13-2004, 05:11 PM

Maybe you are looking at the wrong tube? I have not had trouble much, but when I do it seems to be the water to get into siphon mode.
Take the soap dish apart, remove the black plastic thing that cover the bleach and softner cups, then trim some of that. That may allow water to better flow if the cup has any crud buld up.. Gary is taking about the stems comming up from the cups, file these down won't do much, better to snip a 1/8, 1/4 " or so. Can't hurt it, once it start to flow it should all siphon off. I assume your machines are level..

Joe

10-13-2004, 06:34 PM

Hi Pete, Thanks for the ideas, here's the thing "I" do not want to do anything to these machines. They where installed brand spanking new with this problem. They never worked right! When I talk to Jim I will mention your ideas. Just so we are on the same page, understand these cups are spotless and not siphening. There is no crud on anything. They didn't work right from day one. Sure sometimes people put soad in the bleach cup but that is a completely differant problem. These machines inject water sometime after the finnal rinse but not enough to start the siphen action so water sits in the cup when the machine stops. Getting the machines to start siphening with just the wrongly injected water, to get rid of it, is the whole idea behind the grinding and cutting of stems and caps. It is a band aid fix of the symptom not the problem, but I would live with it if it worked. So far it hasn't. Rapping on...............

Gary C

10-13-2004, 07:19 PM

Pete is right that is what I ment. Does the water ever stay in the softener cup? If not take one apart and see what is different. The reason tha tap on it works is I think you are breaking the water tension kind of like poping a bubble. Try grinding one down you may find that you are happy with it. One out of 22 won't matter.

Gary

Joe

10-13-2004, 10:19 PM

The reason there is no water in the softner cup is that water is not being wrongly injected into the softner cup after the finnal spin. It has a differant valve and or circit then the bleach cup I guess. The siphen works great in all the cups the problem is water being injected but not enough to start the siphen. This is the design flaw. No water should be ejected into that cup once the finnal rinse is over, period. That is the problem. Why is this 3/4 cup of water being injected into the cup after the machine is done using water? Why is the machine doing this? It has a problem somewhere in the design of the valve or the circit board or something. The siphen works fine if you fill the cup enough to make it siphen. Just like when you put bleach in the cup it stays in the cup till water enters and starts the siphen action. Something is wrong with the design that's the bottem line. Maytag needs to own up to it, step to the plate and fix it. I'll except the half assed grinding fix if it works but I will not be the one fixing it, that's crazy. It's not my responsiblity to fix machines broke from the factory.

MSKLAUNDRY.

10-14-2004, 12:27 AM

Joe, now you completely clarified you problem to us. This is what I mean when people need to describe exactly what the problem is, clearly and accurately and not give any opinions or there own ideas as to what they may think is at fault. It gets in the way of anyone trying to help.

My understanding of the problem is not the siphoning design or any part of the dispenser for that matter. The real problem is there is some residual water that makes its way into the bleach container after the final spin or at some point after the original bleach cup is dispensed.

Based on this my opinion is that you are getting residual water that is left inside the hose leading to the bleach disp which finally makes it way through the hose. This water is not enough to fill the bleach hose and siphon it down into the tub.

By the way? what is the model # of you machine? At series 13 they changed the dispenser assy. The new and current dispenser has the bleach and fab softener valve mounted directly to the dispenser rather than at the rear of the machine. Perhaps you have the older style and thus the reason for you problems?

www.msklaundryrepair.com/newdisp.pdf

Joe

10-14-2004, 11:32 AM

Hi Marc, goes to show how when in your head something is obvious but when you type it out it can still cause confusion. YES you get it now. There is nothing wrong with the siphen idea it works fine. The problem is exactly as you said. Water getting into the bleach cup but not enough to start the siphen. I have model number MAH21PD. I was told this was the latest version when I bought them new in AUG 03. Mine has the two, two water valve assemblys not the one long 4 valve manifold that was the old design. My understanding from my Matag distributor is that Maytag knows of this problem, but, they are comming up with band aid fixes that don't address the real problem just the symptems. I wouldn't even care if they worked, they don't. They latest whole drilling idea is not practical. The whole will have to be small enought not to have the bleach drain out right away but big enough to drain the wrongly injected water before the next customer. I envison constantly having to clean these little holes out with some very small tool, not what I signed up for when I bought these machines. I have not spoken directly to Jim Hunter that is my next step. I want to hear from him what he thinks. My understanding is that my distributor has made Jim aware of this problem, but, I have never spoken to him directly. Remember, the Maytag service tech that came to my store told me he sees this problem all over with this machine and he showed me how to rap on the cup tops to get the random water to start to siphen out. Maytag must be aware of this problem, this has been going on for over a year with just my machines! This tells me it is not just my machines but all of MAH21PDs or at least the batch that was built around the same time my 22 machines were built. It is possible they got a bad batch of components and just a small number of the total production of these machines have the problem. Thanks for staying with me and sorry I wasn't more clear originally.

MSKLAUNDRY.

10-14-2004, 11:48 PM

Ok Great, now please speak to Jim Hunter and explain it to him just like you explained it above and he should be able to help you out. And, please don't listen to what your dist. is asking you to do with the small hole thing. That is ridiculous.

Joe

10-15-2004, 12:24 AM

Agreed, the small hole thing is silly. I will report back after speaking with Jim. Thanks again.

Joe

10-20-2004, 04:30 PM

Spoke with Warren at Jim Hunters office number yesterday. It seems they know all about my problem. Maytag is working on a software change to fix the problem, but, do not know when it will be available. The hole drilling idea was just a temperary band aid till they can straighten out the real problem, which is unwanted water somehow entering the bleach cup. This was the first time I heard someone speak of the actual problem being fixed and not just curing the symptoms. I finnally feel that Maytag is really trying to fix this problem and I feel much better having talked to "MAYTAG". As I said I like the machines and so do the customers I just want them to work right. Thanks for the help and comments.

Anonymous

01-16-2005, 03:43 PM

Hello,

I have 16 Mah14 Neptune washers (1997 - 98 )and they all had something wrong with them. I have them all fixed except for three of them.. I have two machines with the front door leaking... I looked at the seals and they look good. I looked at the back of the doors and they also look good. It seems to me it has to much water in the machine.. Is that possible?? Is there a method of checking the water level?? Or any ideas on why these doors are leaking.

Thanks For your help...
Bevo916

MSKLAUNDRY.

01-17-2005, 12:03 AM

Check the inner front door panel for crack(s), holes. Make sure the door boot has the plug in it, if it has a newer boot installed. If it has a newer style boot, carefully check around the nipple for a tear. Try swapping the door with another good washer.

To check the level, remove the front panel, disconnect the power cable to the motor controller. (This will keep the basket from turning while it fills. With the door open hold the door lock switch in, start washer and see how much water you get.

Anonymous

01-17-2005, 08:47 AM

Thanks Marc..

I swapped the doors around with machines that do not have this problem and the same two machines leak with different doors on them. The seals are new and I do not see any cracks in them. When I check the water level, how high should the water be in the machine?? I checked the manuals and it does not tell me. When the door is open while the machine is filling up, The water will pour out the door opening if I dont shut the machine off. I removed the pressure tube and blew it out to make sure its not plugged. I understand the pressure switch is not adjustable. Is that correct?

Thanks
Bevo916

MSKLAUNDRY.

01-17-2005, 07:38 PM

The level switch is adjustable but I highly recomend you not playing with it.

Please reread my post on how to check the level as you missed a step. I never really gave much thought to the correct water level but it should never come above the bottom of the door boot. If it is overfilling then swap the level switch with another washer to verify a bad level switch. If it is overfilling I would also check the air hose at the place where it gets pushed through the sump as it sometimes gets twisted and blocks the air flow through the tube.

n175h

01-20-2005, 09:23 PM

Bevo,

TO: COIN LAUNDRY EQUIPMENT DISTRIBUTORS AND OPERATORS

A county judge in Missouri has recently approved a settlement in a class action suit against Maytag Corporation regarding problems with its Neptune front-loading washing machines sold from approximately April 1997 to July 2004.

A tentative settlement with Maytag was reached on August 6, 2004, and was subsequently approved by the court. Equipment owners were given a period of time to file objections and at least one objection remains to be considered by the court. Assuming this final objection is determined adversely to the objector and no appeal is taken from the ruling, the agreement will make available $2 million for repair reimbursements and replacement costs.

Although the claimants in this class action litigation were primarily residential purchasers, commercial purchasers are not excepted from the settlement.

The agreement offers free repairs or a substantial discount on a new washer for hundreds of thousands of appliance owners nationwide. If a washer can be fixed, the owner can choose between repair, or depending on the date of purchase, up to $500 to purchase a new washer.

If the washer cannot be fixed, the agreement provides the owner up to $1,000 for a new machine, depending on the age of the machine being replaced.

The litigation alleged, according to the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, that the machines have problems with their door latch, motor, motor control, and circuit board and that these malfunctions sometimes result in buildup of mold and mildew, causing odor problems.
TO: COIN LAUNDRY EQUIPMENT DISTRIBUTORS AND OPERATORS
January 3, 2005
Page 2

Maytag has agreed to the following:

! Mail notice of the agreement to everyone in its warranty database who might be affected.

! Advertise the agreement in two weekend editions of USA Today.

· Set up a toll-free number of 1-866-288-1015 to provide information regarding the settlement.

! Maintain a website for the purpose of providing information regarding the settlement at www.maytagfrontloadsettlement.com.

The deadline for filing a repair reimbursement claim or a claim for replacement cost is May 2, 2005. The deadline for filing a washing machine purchase certificate or repair request claim is August 9, 2005. It is estimated that 125,000 owners have filed claims to this point in time.

If claims exceed the amount of $2 million available for disbursement, cash distribution will be reduced on a pro rata basis. Owners will, however, be given an appliance purchase certificate to make up for the amount of the shortfall.

Equipment purchasers frequently ignore returning warranty cards to manufacturers. Since notice of the settlement will be mailed to purchasers in the Maytag warranty database, the message is clear! Always return warranty cards to the manufacturer!

Interested in more information regarding legal matters of interest to the coin laundry and business community? I invite you to visit my website at www.coinlaundrylaw.com!