Payphone

[anonymous]

I just received a letter from my local payphone co stating that our payphone does not collect enough revenue, and that it will be disconnected within 15 days, or I can join their "plan" to pay $75.00 per month to keep it there, receciving 0, yes 0 commissions. Now this, of course, is out of the question. The question is, do I go without a payphone at all, or do I purchase one, pay for the line charge and go with that. I know I saw some postings regarding rebuilt payphones, but couldn't find them. The phone brings in about $80.00 per month at .50 per call. I know that almost everyone has a cell today, but I like the idea of the payphone being there in case of emergencies for those people that don't have a cell. I need input guys!!!!!!!!

[Kitty]

We are in the same boat. No more commissions and simply have a phone for customer conveniences. There are other options we could have done, but frankly, the little money earned is not worth the extra hassles. Companies are mostly stopping this service as there is no money to be made anymore. Many customers use a phone card and there is no commissions paid using the cards available today.

[Anonymous]

You could buy a phone and be your own utility, this has been talked about here before - I think the Gibbon man has done this if memory serves me.

I have a good local provider that gives me 30% commission on the phone which nets me about $50/month from the payphone. Some areas are more payphone worthy than others.

[pete f]

search payphone and you will see the previous comments and web sites. A good used bell style phone goes for $600-$800 and a line costs about $50 a month. If your phone does $80 then you should try to own your own. Check with your Public Utility Commssion to see what type of ducomnets are required, or call the loacl phone company and ask about a pay phone line.

You might try for another pay phone provider, they are all getting slicker though.

[Ken]

Cell phone and prepay phone card are killing the payphone biz, some large phone co(Bell South) get out of the payphone biz because it is a really bad.
I would run without payphone and change your store phone to no long distance for a few weeks .

[Lar Hylobates]

http://www.payphone.com

300.00 and it sounds like you are in business.

I have this phone, although I seem to recall paying $600.00 for it.

I only have one line for my alarm and the payphone is on it too. The line has to be there anyway so why not the payphone?? Public utility? Give me a break.

I gross 150.00 - $200.00 monthly and the phone bill has never exceeded $50.00 total. I have no long distance carrier, because I never got around to hooking it up. $.50 per local call and it's all yours!!!

[pete f]

I applied and have received a certificate of being a public utility in Florida and able to operate payphones last week. ($100 fee)
I ordered a brand new phone with a protel board ($655) I have orderd my line ($75) and will pay the monthly fee ($35)
My phone I had, which the PPP had finaly removed after months of letters, was doing about $120 a month revenue. (no wonder they did not want to take the phone out, remember, thye had not paid a commssion for almost 2 years) I see a profit of around $70+ coming online very soon, so my investment should be paid back within a year or so. I found a long distance company for 4.5 cent a min, and becuase I do not have a prepaid phone card dispenser, am thinking of charging 12 cent a min LD (now set at .25) to get more LD usage and revenue.
verdict: payphone companies scam you big time. $830 well spent
Not everyone has a cell phone or will ever have one. And now I can place phones in other locations if I get ambitous 'cuase I have a license (to steal)
If anyone here in FL wants a payphone contact me, I will do a deal that makes sense and give you keys to the coin box..

[anonymous]

I've purchased a brand new smart phone on :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek: for $250.00 plus $40.00 shipping. It came with all software, manuals, and keys. I've seen these phones selling for $600.00 clams. Haven't hooked it up yet, as the phone co. hasn't ripped theirs out yet. Kinda courius as to what they are going to leave me. There is an enclosure around it now, and the mounting plate. Does anyone out there have a mounting plate they are looking to get rid of?

[Lar Hylobates]

I have a brand new mounting plate that I didn't use when I installed my phone. It will fit a standard "bell" type phone.

When Verizon took my old phone out, they left the cabinet that the phone was in hanging on the wall so I did not need my mounting plate.

Funny thing...a week after I installed my phone they came back for their cabinet. I simply told them I wasn't removing the phone and they left it alone.

If you want this plate send your request to stonecoldkiller@sscckk.com. I'll stop it by your store on Friday.

[Lar Hylobates]

Nevermind on stopping by your store. thought you were someone else. I'd still give you this plate but don't do the shipping thing very well. If you have a friend in Los Angeles they are welcome to come by and get it for you.

[anonymous]

Thanks HL - Let me see what the phone co. leaves behind. I'll be in touch. Now to figure out the programming...

[CharlieS]

If you are going to do the payphone thing, then you should know

Nowadays, nearly 1/4 to half of your income will come in the form of dial around collection. When someone uses a payphone to call an 800 number, the long distance carrier must pay the payphone owner 24 cents. This is required by the FCC. To collect, you must do 2 things.

First, you must have a payphone line which transmits the ANI to the carrier. This is not standard. In most states, this line is no more expensive than a regular business line. It may even be cheaper. Without the ANI, the carriers will not pay.

Second, You must collect the money. The easiest way to do this is to hire APCC, which is the industry organization, similar to CLA. For a very small fee, they will do all of the work. You can't do it yourself, because you have to contact every single possible carrier individually. APCC earns their money and does a good job.

www.apcc.net

Payment is slow. You file at the beginning of each quarter, for the previous quarter. The carriers pay at the beginning of the next quarter. However, these can be significant additional sources of income for your payphone. Mine average about $100 per quarter per phone, and I have 7.

Charlie

[Anonymous]

Pete,

Why don't you have a phone card dispenser and sell phone cards??!! If your payphone is used at all, it's almost a gauranteed sell.

The return on payphone cards is anywhere from 30-50%, and they go like hotcakes. Mount it right near your payphone.

I got my dispenser on :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek: and searched the web for the best deal on a set of bulk cards. I got mostly $5 cards ($2.50 profit on each card sold), and a few $10 cards ($5.00 profit on each card sold).

Good additional revenue, my friend.

-dave.

[Lar Hylobates]

Charlie,

when 0 is dialed on my phone, it speed dials a 0+ service. Their operators handle the transaction and send me a check quarterly. I assume this is the "retail" version of what you are referring to.

[pete f]

Charlie, part of my jump into the payphone was a result of your post sometime ago explaining dial around. I did get a co-cut line, and will be setting up with APCC soon. Thanks for the info. I went with a Protel s-310 board, seem simple to program.

Dave,. I pondered a card machine, but really, I just do not have a space for it. If I set the LD at .25 per 2 mins (12.5 cent a min) it is compatible with a phone card, all phone cards have a Payphone fee anyway, though most probably do not pay attention. Anyway, my coin changer is about 6 feet from the phone, and I will have LD set up for 4.5 cent min my cost, so got nothing to loose. I will set the phone to say "please deposit 50 cents for 4 mins" when they dial out, and every 4 mins after. I will just deal with more quarters.

[CharlieS]

Pete - The S310 is a decent machine, designed to be cost effective yet do the job.

Hylobates - You are referring to what is called Operator Commissions. This is a third source of income for payphones. For me at least, it is not very lucrative, about 3 or 4 dollars per phone per month. Phone cards have eliminated most of this type of commission income. Nonetheless, every bit counts! After all, most of us make out living one quarter at a time.

To recap, you have 3 sources of payphone income.

1) coin income
2) dial around payments
3) operator commissions (operator assisted long distance)

[Lar Hylobates]

I am supposed to get money for every phone card call also??? I mean they supposedly DO pay me/

[Lar Hylobates]

Oh, I just re-read your post.

When you dial "800" number I am supposed to get .24!

I currently charge .50 coin for a "toll free" number of anykind.

LOL...hope its legal.

[harry]

Hi Dave
Could you tell me the web site of your phone card distibutor.
Thanks

[Anonymous]

Harry: I wouldn't use the guy I bought my cards from - I'm not using him again. I sent him the cashier's check for the cards, and it took him forever to get the cards to me. I sent him 5 or 6 e-mails and got no response. I got very nasty with him, and he finally sent me the cards.

His name was Leoanard something with a company called AUCTIONWORKS. Do not use him!

Scan the internet and :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:. There are tons of places that deal in phone cards. I'll be looking for more card soon. When I find what appears to be a good deal, I'll let you know. And please, if you find a good deal, let me know.

Pete: I guess my thought is this. The first time your phone says to a customer "50 cents for 4 minutes", they'll not use your long distance service again. They'll *think* they will get a better deal by buying a phone card with 4.5 cents per minute. Even though you are pretty much right about everything being equal after the service charge, they won't think about it that way. They'll go to Wal-Mart or something and get a phone card instead of using your long distance.

If you have a phone card machine right there, BOOM! They buy your phone card. What got me onto this was that I was finding tons of old phone cards in my l'mat - in the trash and on the tables/machines. These things are used a lot more than I originally thought. Hell, I got guys at work asking me to bring some into the office so they can buy them from me. It's kinda like the video game - I've had people stop at the mat specifically to buy a phone card...... anyway, everyplace is different. Just my $0.02 worth. I'm pretty much sold on them. (I'm going to add them to the grocery store ASAP).

-dave.

[pete f]

geez Dave I REALLY do not have anywhere to put one. I could hang one on the wall outside next to the phone I guess. I really Am short on inside room, so much so I have been looking into a/c snack vendiors so I can stick one outside next to the soda machine. I will look into it, you are probably right. I might as well charge 25 cent a min LD.

[Lar Hylobates]

Most of the payphones around me charge $3.00 to $5.00 for the first few minutes of long distance.

I am serious. My phone is set to bill at $2.00 for three minute increments.

[Anonymous]

H. Lar: If you can get that price, then more power to you. I just can't believe that folks would pay that for a telephone call. Especially with the proliferation of phone cards these days, and the ease of buying them.

It's amazing..... I was in the l'mat the other day and a customer's cell phone was going off. Then I overheard another couple of folks talking about their DVD players. But yet, they have to go to the laundromat to wash their clothes.....

Like I've always said: It's not the amount of money you make, it's what you do with it.

[CharlieS]

Hylobates - It is a violation of FCC regulations to charge for a toll-free call. Instead, you receive the FCC mandated payment of 24 cents per tolll free call. This also applies to calls made using 10XXX long distance services.

Dave - This same payment applies to calls made using the cards, which typically access through 800 numbers.

Further requirements - Your phone must provide access for free to 911. Most states also require a refund procedure to be in place and may have specific signage requirements.

Around here, a popular rate for long distance is 4 minutes for $1. Frankly, I don't see a lot of this type of activity on my phones. The cards are very popular, especially with the hispanics calling home.


Charlie

[Lar Hylobates]

I don't see very much long distance on the bill, but it sure is nice when it happens.


I knew someone was going to bring up the FCC!!! As long as the city is not involved I'm safe.

[NJ Jon]

What do you do with wall mounted payphones when the phone company goes out of business?

Just looked at a mat with one of these on the wall. There is no dial tone, and the company is out of business. If I buy this mat, can I just rip it off the wall (I don't have a key to open it), or is there someone to call who'll do it for me? Whose property is it once a company is in bankruptcy, or ceases to exist?

To my way of thinking it looks bad for a mat to have any equipment with an "Out of Order" sign on it, especially something as obvious and long term as a defunct payphone.

Has anyone run into this before?


Best of the season,

NJ Jon

[Lar Hylobates]

My old contract read, whatever they leave behind is yours so rip it off the wall.

I assume its not your contract anyway.

[Anonymous]

Just rip the damn thing off the wall and tell them someone stole it. I would consider it abandoned anyway. You should probably be charging them rent for the space.

[Anonymous]

Good luck collecting the rent.....

Here's a new one. The company that owned the payphone in my l'mat sold their phone business to some other company.

The new company sent me a contract. Upon signing the contract, I will be agreeing to the following:

1) They will be allowed to put as many phones on my property as they wish.

2) I will have to pay them $50/month per phone for the privledge of doing business with them.

3) contract terms: 5 years.

Did you read that right? I would have to PAY THEM $50/phone per month.

I think it's time to buy my own phone, ala Pete F, and take control of the situation. If I have to pay $50 per phone, it sure ain't going to be to those bozos. I'll pay for a line, collect the cash, and hope to break even.

[pete f]

Dave.. there is more money in these payphones then they are telling us. I imagine if you own 100's and have to pay someone to collect, and hire bookkeepers, etc, than maybe you do not make so much. But having your own phone you are there anyway if it make $5 a month great. You said you are selling phone cards and have a busy phone. You should be able to figure out the revenue from the checks the last outfit sent. Call the phone company, get the pay phone line dept and find out what you need to do to be a pay phone operator. I have the number of an PPP, I think out of Ohio, they would give 15% of net. I passed on that deal, but if you don't want a phone it gives you something.
Pay $50 for a payphone? Reminds me of the good ol'e days before dereg and I wanted the phone company to put a payphone at my tire shop. The truckers were always on my phones. Sure, says the local phone company, but they were going to BILL me $75 a month for it and keep all the money themselves out of it. What a deal. I put another line in for $30 a month and let the truckers use it.


NJ Jon... Sawsall, jackhammer, big sledge. Don't hurt yourself tearing it off. too bad you can;t salvage it and sell it to Dave...

HL.. I am sure you know, but you do not have to registar with the FCC for that marine radio on your boat anymore..

[Lar Hylobates]

I have never registered the thing. It never works right anyway.

Once I had to call for vessel assist after both screws and my outboard went out. Took hours of drifting at sea to get any response.

[CharlieS]

Charging for payphone locations is becoming very common. Many payphone locations have had significant drops in coin income over the past few years, with the continuing popularity of cell phones. Like laundromats, this is a very mature business. Unlike laundromats, there are active new options available which are reducing the market significantly.

When major telephone carriers make wholesale moves to stop placing payphones and to remove existing phones, you know there isn't any money left in the business anymore.

My average payphone brings in about $125 per month. My line charge is $75. Of my 7 phones, 3 lose money every month. I choose to keep these operational for other reasons. mainly to provide the service to my customers who need it (my rental property and laundromat customers) I don'l lose much. However, if these were profit centers, how much effort would you put into a non profit location?

Most operators are switching to a pay per month contract with locatinons that are not productive, but the location owner wants to keep it available for their customers. This is a very common scenario. You can always say No!

Let's say you put a washer dryer in a small rental property. These net you between $10 and $50 a month total for both. You have to visit these 4 times a month and make any needed repairs, plus make the commision reports and payments to the property owners. Would you settle for $25 a month, $50, what? This is the position that telephone owners are in.

And don't downplay the investment. The average installation, runs $1200 to $1500, with mounts, installation labor, wall boxes, smart phones, etc.

Charlie

[anonymous]

Got the phone, trying to program it. It's an ernest telecom payphone. Seems I need a plugin display to program. Anybody have an extra one or know where I can get one? Also where do you get the rate table from?

[CharlieS]

Rate Files - Try http://www.theratecenter.com

They also have a classified ad section. You might have some luck with an ad there in finding your display. I'm not familiar with the Ernest phone.

Charlie

[Lar Hylobates]

Dolly, why don't you give yourself a break.

Any payphone outlet can program that thing for you. They charge $20.00 or so for the service and will do it how you like.


I used payphone.com, but there are many just try your search engine or a payphone outfitters classified.

[anonymous]

OK - thanks for your help guys, I see I can get the mounting plate @ payphone.com for only $20.00, the rate center has 6month or yearly subscriptions for the rate files. I geuss I still need the plug in display to program this. HL - when you say any payphone outlet will do the programming, do you mean web sites, local co.'s or what? I'm kinda new to this payphone stuff...

[buddy]

I have payphone in my MAT inherited from previous MAT owner. The Pay Phone Company used to send checks to previous MAT owner about $25/month. I called the pay phone company several times regarding change of ownership and asked them to send me the monthly Payphone commision. I haven't seen any check in last 6 months since I bought the MAT. Exact same story with the Coke Machine. I sent them a letter and called them several times but haven't seen any check from them.

[Lar Hylobates]

I mean that payphone.com will do all the programming for you as in call your phone and program it for you for $20.00!!!

Just call them and they will explain it. That is how payphones are programmed typically.
\
The payphone operator just dials them via computer and handles it automatically with appropriate software. It takes a few minutes.

[anonymous]

Thanks HL - thats good and easy news. I'll give it a try when I get the phone in the mat, right now it's still in my house.

[CharlieS]

Buddy -

Call both Coke and the payphone folks. Don't tell them you want to switch the payments. Tell them they have 2 weeks to remove their equipment, and that you are planning to replace them with other vendors, but will be glad to consider anything they may wish to offer. If they don't respond, throw them out.

Alternatively, issue them an invoice for unpaid commissions, then sue them in small claims court.

OK OK, I really wouldn't do that, but you need to get their attention. Move up the chain.

Charlie

[pete f]

A coke machine is a pretty good money maker, you may be better off to own your own. You can buy a decent used one for around $1000 or so. Contact a local vending machine company, or search the web, thier are many. I would buy my own and just wheel that coke machine out and put it in the back. The phone is a little harder to move, but I can tell you if they were sending $25 a month to the last owner it was making decent money also. A letter will have more impact than a phone call.
Good luck those payphone people really guard thier better phone locations and can be tough to deal with.

[Ken]

I had 2 payphone vender ,they never pay me and didn't want to remove the phone then I found a vender willing to pay 25%.
I cut the line a few time,they put them back,I finally cut the phone
out(they are easy to cut out with saw).One vender picked up,one never did.
Most vender don't want to move their machines from good location,I have deal with video game,candy,pop,payphone vender won't move their machines.I gave them 2 weeks then move to back room or storage.

[CharlieS]

One quick comment on payphone and drink vendors.

If the vendor tries to tell you he has a contract for the location, insist on seeing a copy.

If from the previous lessee (your predecesser), the contract will not have validity if the lease is expired and you have a new lease. If you assumed the lease, such as in a 'mat purchase agreement, the contract would still be valid. However, they must make payments now to you, from the date you notified them in writing.

If you purchased the real estate, the contract is probably still valid as well, if with the previous owner. Only if the previous lessee gave a contract in excess of his lease agreement could you terminate.

Charlie

[CharlieS]

I have drink machines which I run myself, and others which are run by the local Coke and Pepsi distributors.

I make less money on the ones I don't run, but it is far less hassle for me. For the minor difference, I'd rather let them do the work. If I could get cases delivered to my location at a rate competitive to Sam's, I would do it myself. However, going out, buying the cases, bringing them back, moving and loading them, is a PIA.

Charlie

[David]

Having read this saga and previous versions on payphone ownership, I think I've decided to try it myself.

The main reason I need a phone is so customers can contact me when equipment is down. I believe they would be more apt to call if they knew the call was toll free.

The second reason is I'd like to have a phone available when I'm at the mat. My cell phone doesn't always get a good signal there.

The third reason is that I'd like to have a line available for dialup. I plan to eventually upgrade my security to digital.

And the last is possible income.

I do appreciate everyone's participation in this thread as I have learned something new about payphones. (and other vending machines.)

[MichaelCa]

CharlieS: On those drink machines which you run yourself... what average Net are you getting out of them? ... and are these the "regular size" type of Soda Vend Machines, or those "mini" size?

Around here, i've only seen the "mini" kind in use, and i dont observe much usage (though can't be sure)

Oddly enough, even though this is a high cost area (nor.Calif.) every Mat that has one, has them priced at .75c, Not 1.00 (or more) like most other locations (malls, gas stations, etc.)

Can't figure out the thinking behind that, except that maybe since they're using those "mini" machines, they have to charge less ??

[Andy]

$0.75 = inexperience or lack of confidence.
Charge $1.00 or more, you will be doing us all a favor.

[Lar Hylobates]

I price all snack and drink vending to net 65% profit (gross-my cost) This figure does not include labor, gas, travel, machine maintenance, etc. All of which is minimal for me.

[CharlieS]

I price my cans at 50 cents , and pay 25 cents. There are about 5 machines 100 feet away that run 50 cents for cans.

My weekly income is about $50 net from the machine I run.

Charlie

[anonymous]

Back to the payphone saga - The phone company still hasn't ripped their phone out yet, but they sent me a comission check yesterday. They changed their format of the statement and now list what the phone brings in for the preceeding month. It did $115.00 in calls last month. Like Pete said earlier, there's money to be made here.

[pete f]

I hung up my payphone yesterday, got everything working and set up by 3 pm. There has not been a working phone here for 3 months or more. The long distance is not set up yet, I did not "order" one with the phone service, I had to wait until I had the phone number and have sent in for a 4.9 cent a min service today. I also have sent for the dial around papers. I will call sprint and get the OLP? papers, so I get paid for collect and phone Credit card calls.
Get this, I went over last nite to shut the doors as it was going to be cold overnite (45 degrees) and I thought I would check the phone. This one has a feature you dial *,#,% and a 4 digit code and it tells you how, much it has taken in since it was cleared to "0". The phone told me it had 1.25 ! The cualking was not even dry yet on the line work I did. Already breaking even.

For a dial around I found this company, they do not charge a set up fee, not sure about thier commssion to do all the work.
They also have local and LD service in some mid west states.

847-808-0288 ext 104 Pam

If you only have 1 phone like me it may be cheaper than paying the set up fee to the AAPC.

[Lar Hylobates]

Dolly,

I called my phone company a few weeks before the contract ended and clarified for them that my "construction" started the day after their removal date and that I could not be held responsible for the phone during demolition.

The phone was removed on time!

[pete f]

another day, another dollar. This phone biz is great!

Dolly- it took me months of threathing letters, I would drive tyo thier office (always closed) and leave notes to get rid of thier phone. I was prepared to hack it out with a sawsall but as luck would have it, they removed it. Be relentless and threathing,. I did what HL mentioned on the payphone that was thier before this one. They fought till the bitter end. The payphone companies know which ones produce and they fight like hell to keep them, as free or cheap as they can of course. If you cut the line and hang an Out of order sign and make sure it stays out of order for a month or two it can make a difference how fast they pull the phone.. I cut the line from the grey box the phone company puts in then put a lock on it so they could not hook up agian. Payphone wars I feel like a General by now...

[anonymous]

thanks for the advice guys - been kinda busy with other stuff, but I will get this done this month...

[Jim F.]

I just took out my payphone. I have a mexican store in the same center as one mat. They would sell phone cards to all sorts of places in Mexico and Latin America. Their customers would come over to use the phone and then park themselves and watch Univision. Of course they don't "speak English". I would have to point to the door and say Bye-Bye.

I have a nice phone for sale if anyone wants it.