Setting up a mat in Singapore (am I making mistake?)

[Anonymous]

Hi

I live in Singapore and I've noticed that there are no coin mats in this densely populated city-state.

There are some unique features about this place that makes it a risky bet for a mat. (1) only 30% of households have a car as they cost around USD65k each. The rest of population gets around via buses, trains and taxis. (2) of those that do have a car, almost all of them have maids who can do their washing for them. (3) if they don't have a maid, then often families live with their in-laws so there is always a fussy mother in law to do the washing for them. (4) Renting is uncommon outside of the inner city areas.

In light of the above, I'm thinking of focusing on the inner city areas where there is a very high proportion of renters (as well as westerners who may be used to a mat) who are very busy. If you were given the following demographics in the States, would you go ahead with building a mat?

1.Very high density residential population (I'm talking several 20 story high residential towers within walking distance of the prospective location.)
2.Everybody rents, and generally change apartments/ move out of the area every 2-3 years.
3.Apartments are mainly 2br type, around 800 square feet in size (i.e. small)
4.Most people have middle to high incomes and few kids. Often they are not family units but rather simply house mates.
5.Mainly young professional types and work long hours.
6.Everybody already has a washing machine and a dryer already in their apartments, but the washing machine is typically a small 11 pounds front end loader with combo drying.
7.The apartment complexes do not have common washing facilities
8.People are not used to the idea of using a coin mat.
9.There are no coin mats in the area.
10.There are wash and fold services around. However, in my view they are expensive, and they take 4 days to wash and return clothes.
11.People typically do not have cars but instead rely on public transport/taxis so my guess I would be relying purely on the high density residential towers in the immediate vicinity for business.

I figure that since everybody works hard they don't have much time for washing. Landlords provide the bare minimum to rent an apartment out which includes cheap furniture, a fridge and a small front loading washer/dryer combo. Moreover, people typically share the apartment with one or two others, so if you leave your washing to Sunday night and your house mate is doing theirs, then you are out of luck. This means that clothes are piling up and you then spend the rest of the week playing catch up with the washing, and typically find your self hurriedly ironing a shirt before going to work. The above is basically how I live and its irritating. I personally wish I could walk to the coin mat down the road and get my week's washing done in one go.

Am I making a big mistake or have I hit a gold mine?

[anonymous]

have you looked in to the cost to rent ? cost to build ? may be to much for coin op .

[Coinwash]

Coinage and Currency? How will this work with the machines?

Would you use a debit system (cards) Are they ready for this kind of system.

Please give us a blow by blow description.

[pete f]

I know a person in Guangzhou China that wanted to put in mats, He is a multi-milionaire, builder of big buildings. I met with him there last year and went thru the process of buildout and returns with him, He did not want to pursue it. I think the returns were not strong enough to entice him. I personally thought it would be a great idea, not sure why nobody has not done it yet. McDonalds and KFC abound, why not a laundry? I may yet build some there.
There are equipment manufactors in Europe, some exorted thru Austrailia. With a good chuck of yuan or whatever your currency, paid off officials and legwork, you may be on to something. Start small and let people wait in line, don't worry about having a giant store.

[Anonymous]

Tks guys for the views. Will look to start something small (that's all I can afford anyway). But I will have a bunch of red tape to cut through. Will write more a little later...

[anonymous]

A few question you need to ask yourself
1, Cost of living
2, Do people like the idea "self service laundromat".

I was from Asia,I speak and read Chinese,spoke to some people in Taiwan and China when I was on vacation this year about "self service laundromat" since they like to ask me what I do for living,a lot people can not understand the idea,most laundry service in Taiwan,China,HK are drop off service with drycleaner together since laber is still very cheap in China,I don't think people willing to pay $1-2 ($1=8.25 Chinese $=33 Taiwan $=7.25 HK $)for a load in China right now. Singapore maybe different but I think you need to do a lot homework before you do it.

[Anonymous]

Hi Ken,

I will definitely do my homework before proceeding. Indeed asking this bulleting board is part of that. I'm interested to know whether an equivalent demographic group (busy dual income no kids; busy single professionals sharing accomodation) would be sufficient to create a viable business in the US given that they already have a washer/dryer at home (albeit a small one). Also take into account that they people I'm targeting do not have a car as those who do will also likely have a maid. As for income, Singapore is a very wealthy city state- equivalent to some US cities. Anyway, if I can be sure that a similar American demographic would be enough to support a mat, then it helps me be more confident. If this type of demographic in the US would not be suitable for a mat, then I defintely would not proceed over here.

[Anonymous]

Hi Coinwash,

Coinage and Currency? How will this work with the machines?
Would you use a debit system (cards) Are they ready for this kind of system.
Please give us a blow by blow description.
I would like to use a debit/smart card system, providing I can work out a way to link it up with the local currency. People over here are familiar with smart cards, perhaps even more so than Americans. Everybody uses a smart card for electronic road taxing and the public transport system. More recently, you can even buy Macdonalds using the same smart card. I want to use the card system as a way of creating discounts to attract customers in the first place. Problem, I'm not familiar with the technology myself, so I will have to talk with various distributors. Then I've got the problem of flying in spare parts, so I'm prob going to have to keen an inventory locally.

Hi Ryano,

have you looked in to the cost to rent ? cost to build ? may be to much for coin op .
Rent isn't a problem if people are fundamentally prepared to wash their own clothes at a public facility. If they are prepared to do that, then I can definitely significantly undercut wash and fold services and still charge a reasonable price given that I will have no competition.

Building is another matter. I will have to check out all manner of regulations I guess, such as those relating to sewage systems etc.

[anonymous]

I know Singapore is a wealthy and super clean place,you may have to sell the idea"self service laundromat". When I talk to people about "Laundromat " on my vacation,some people can not understand,some people told me they don't want to use washers other people just use,I told them I don't have washer and dryer at home,always done my laundry in laundromat,you will have to sell the idea and asnwer all the questions.
HK and Taiwan are not poor area but no laundromat,maybe I should open one in HK or Taiwan ;-) I read a mag long time ago,a laundromat in Indonesia.I always buy laundromats in not so rich area in US.Most citys in Asia have enough people to support laundromats,you just have to sell the idea"laundromat"!

[ajay]

What's the temperature like in Singapore? I assume hot. Generally clothes will get air dried and washing is done by hands or servants. I have family in India but never the concept of laundromat will work there. If you want to sell the idea of washing machine at homes that actually spin clothes out - you can make a bundle. Laundromat will work in places where the labor is expensive - in typical third world countries labor is cheap. It is quite common for people to have servants do everything for them - literally!!

ajay

[pete f]

Tks guys for the views. Will look to start something small (that's all I can afford anyway). But I will have a bunch of red tape to cut through. Will write more a little later...


How do you plan to bribe the officials? Once that is done, you may get permission to rent and bring in water, eletric, gas. The one thing I noticed in my travels to asia was it seem everyone has clothes hangin out thier balcony. If you can sell the idea of drying in 20 mins it works, or at least I thought so. You would have to pay US market rates for the equipment, and charge your local currency rates for its' use, so that is a big negative. My understanding is water, sewer, gas all very cheap, as is rent. There are no Asian manufactors of coin op equipemnt, so import is the only way. The popuation density is so high and with no compitition you should study the numbers and see what can be done. Let us know, Ken can take Tiawan, I will take Hong Kong, then we split up China.. hehe

[Anonymous]

Corruption is not an issue in Singapore, so no bribing. However, since no one has set up one before I imagine there must be regulations to overcome with regards to access to sewage pipes etc. Also 10 year leases for retail is extremely rare. Most people lease 1+1 years which is completely unacceptable for this business i guess.

[anonymous]

Taiwan and HK's rent are very expensive.
I saw a full service laundromat in HK,it had ADC 236 and Ipso,the space was so small ,it was about 500-800 sqft.
Even some of the fast food chain didn't make in Asia,they have money and people to run the show.I still remenber when first McDonald open in Taiwan,the best selling points were good AC and clean inside,took a while for Chinese to eat their food.
Singapore is not a 3rd world country but selling the idea may take you a while,as I said ,I spoke to lot people when I was on vacation this year,not many people understand,maybe my Chinese is not as good as I think.I took a lot pics about people hanging clothes outside in China and HK,some are even expensive houses!It is very hard to change people's custom.If you can do it,you may make it.Singapore maybe different,I have not been to Singapore but I know it has a lot Chinese there.

[anonymous]

What I see in 3rd world countries (especially India) is that labor is cheap so people who can afford it hire somebody to cook, wash, clean etc. Why go to a laundry if somebody else is doing it? The poor people do the actual cleaning etc don't have enought money to pay somebody. Even people who you would not consider well off hire most menial jobs out.

[pete f]

Corruption is not an issue in Singapore, so no bribing. However, since no one has set up one before I imagine there must be regulations to overcome with regards to access to sewage pipes etc. Also 10 year leases for retail is extremely rare. Most people lease 1+1 years which is completely unacceptable for this business i guess.

I assume doing business is like China, maybe not, but then??
In order to set up a small mat I think it would cost at least 200k US, figuring cheap labor for plumbing, gas work, install, electric work, etc.
There are probably not many red tape issues, you rent a space, put the stuff in and go. I have not been to Singapore either, maybe I should stop in next time I am over that way.

[anonymous]

Pete,if you go to Singapore,remenber the rule #1:Don't graphit!
As far as I know Singapore is a very nice and clean place.
Freddie,you need 10 years or longer lease in this business since yon can not move your water pips.I will not build or buy any place without 10-15 years lease.

[Anonymous]

Ken, Thanks for the advice on the length of the lease. That might be one reason why such a business has not started. The capital outlay versus the available tenures is just not attractive. Still I will plug away at this.

[anonymous]

I don't know how long the lease in your area.
Laundromat is not only business with high set up cost,fast food,carwash also have high set up cost.A lot fast food chain from US are doing business in Asia,I don't think they only have 1,2 years lease.
When we were in Asia vacation,they are Mc everywhere! my kids were happy.