Drain height

[buddy]

I have a concrete trough behind the washers which houses main drain line. All the washers are connected to main drain line.

However, some washers may overflow/leak or inlet hose might start leaking and spills the water in this concrete trough. My next door tenant gets water in his store when little bit of water spills into this concrete trough. It is getting very annoying since I get phone calls from him evry couple of weeks complaining water seeping into his store.

What is the best way to seal this water seepage through concrete with minimum down time to my washers?

Thanks,

[BWJR]

Use the same paint that is used to paint concrete pools or if you want to get real messy use black pitch. In both cases have plenty of ventilation and do not do it during business hours. Its not good for your health.

BWJR

[Anonymous]

Sounds strange, are you sure the water is leaking through the concrete or maybe it is overflowing behind it and going around the back of it by the wall?

[Fred50]

Sounds strange to me too. Is the bottom of the trough above, at or below the floor level?

[buddy]

Mark, Kirby
It is leaking through the concrete. I had a contractor put in water proof board on the back wall six months ago. Besides even if there is a little puddle in my concrete trough from a dripping inlet hose, it immediately ends up in the next store.

Concrete by nature is porous and not 100 % waterproof. As concrete gets old it becomes more porous that is why you see these lot of problems with basement flooding in may homes.

[Anonymous]

Still sounds very strange. Is water sitting there for long periods of time and not going down a drain - that seems the only way it could permiate the concrete. Are you sure there is no gap between the new stuff on the way and the trough? Where does this thing drain? Perhaps you could post a picture so we could see what it is that you are talking about.

[buddy]

Here is the diagram. It is the cross section from the side view of the washer. The drain line is the PVC pipe behind the washers and all washers drain connect into this pvc pipe.

[troy]

I have some leaks from my concrete trough too. It is due to small crack in the concrete. When there are some puddles, the water will seep to the outside floor. I have tried many product to seal it, but none last very long, due to the shaking of the washers over time.

Check for crack, even small ones. Try some liquid cement to smooth the surface and fill up little holes to eliminate puddles.

[srhaz]

Those concrete sealant paints do work, they are fairly thick and time consuming to paint on.

A fast 'half assed' approach that I have done is slop on some thompsons water seal (like for wood decks). Its water like, you don't have to be neat, it soaks in. You would need to do this a couple times a year. I even use it on my boat cover - lasts all season.

Can you get under your pipe? How about a plastic liner. Kind of like a gutter sitting inside your trough. I've seen square pvc channel, or take a length 10" pvc pipe and slice it length-wise.

[buddy]

srhaz,

about 6 months ago I put rubber membranes in the trough and underneath the drain pipe, It worked good but since membrane I put in are about 6 feet in length overlapping each other, the water can slide underneath the membrane and hit the concrete.

[srhaz]

Roofing tar. Seals membrane joints.
This stuff has more uses than Duct Tape.
Can even get it in a 'caulk gun tube'

A roofing supply house, or gutter guy (or girl) will take any length of aluminum sheet metal, and bend it to fit your trough. I've seen over 10" wide flashing formed.

[pete f]

I am wondering how many have P-traps inline, either a bank or individual, or not at all and use the lint trap as one. Normal here is no P-trap, the lint trap serves as one. This has been the way for years, up till now. I understand from my GC the city is requiring them now on all washer, Lint trap or not. My take is the bigger front loads will not drain as well, then there is the clean out issue down the road. At one mat I bought a few years ago, the P-trap had not been cleaned, and it was like full of stuff, very hard stuff. I could not break it up even with a pro sewer snake rig. That drain system had been in for about 10 years.I had to cut out the P-trap and replace the pipe. It was plugged. The beauty of a lint trap is it is the P-trap for the whole sewer system, and you can have it pumped once a year to keep it cleaned. So what is your plumbimg set up? P-trap ea machine? banks? Lint trap the store?

[Ken]

If I have space,I like to put lint trap in each line,it is much easier to remove junk from lint trap than p trap,I won't put p trap in every machines,take too much space and money.

[Coinwash]

For the Members who don't no.

These are some traps there are more but this should help in understanding.

Coinwash Staff

[Andy]

My version of the lint trap should be called a lint pit. Each bulkhead of machines drain into a troughs which have 6" drains in the bottom, I cover these drains with a large metal basket strainer that catches big stuff and some lint. These drains flow into a pit that is 4.5' deep x 8' long x 4' wide, this empties into a standpipe and trap to the street. I pump the 18" or so of sludge from the pit once per year.

[KJD]

Individual cast iron P traps here, required my code.

And yes they are a pain, usually clog about once a month.

But I think if the manufacturers could make a better seal around the tub area of the machines that would not swallow pens, pencils, combs, credit cards, etc. there would not be so much clogging of the P trap.

Just my opinion!

[CharlieS]

This is a classic example of a failure to apply common sense by your local plumbing inspections office.

What is the purpose of a P trap? Simply to provide a water seal between the sewer line and the appliance, so that sewer gases do not escape into the building.

So what is the purpose of requiring a P trap at each washer, when the entire drain system then runs through a lint trap which also acts as a P trap?

Answer - NONE. The reason this is required is that the national plumbing code states that lines from washers must be served by P traps within so many feet of the washer. Of course, this does not envision the laundromat scenario, but rather the typical scenario of a single washer, sink, etc.

This is the typical beaurocrat inspector, what I call a pink paper person. (Sorry, that form is not acceptable on white paper, it must be on pink paper) It only serves to jerk you around.

I am fortunate that my local inspectors are very reasonable, and open to looking at the reason, not just the code. We dump all lines straight into the lint trap, with no P traps intervening. We have also been able to avoid backflow preventers, by showing that all of our equipment has internal backflow prevention that meets the national code.



Charlie

[MSKLAUNDRY.]

"But I think if the manufacturers could make a better seal around the tub area"


They do, have you seen the tub of the Primus made Maytags. They have a lip on the front of the washer that will keep most items out of the drain. They also have 3 inch drain valves.

[Duane]

I have those Maytags with lip around the edge. Been open for almost 1.5 years now and haven't had any drain problems.

[Andy]

Most municipalities require a backflow preventer on the main these days for commercial and industrial water users.

[mike]

I have a row of 12, W124's

they empty into individual 3" drains, which enter a 4" drain at a 45 degree angle, there is a 4" p-trap just before it joins the down drain.

I had problems with suds backing up from one machine to another, if it was empty. (sometimes with bleach !!!!)

I installed 2" P traps at each machine (there wasn't room for 3" ones)

With a 2" P trap behind each machine, I STILL have machines backing up into empty ones ?

Can anyone offer a suggestion. (cheap suggestion)

[laundryboy]

Cheap is a relative thing. Your problem will always persistent until the bottle-neck is taken care of, your 4" trap.

If all your machines are trapped, then elliminate the 4" trap (your bottle-neck). As mentioned above, the purpose of the trap is to prevent sewer gasses, not water backups.

[pete f]

mike,, a cheap alternative is to give the suds some place to go. You could put in a 5" stand pipe, maybe even a suds pipe, I had such a feature at one mat. Basicaly a short pipe up, then horizontal for a small distance, then back down to regular drain.
Also several fat standpipe in the line would help. I think the real problem is the main drain is slightly uphill, so it does not let the suds flush good. I have thsi problem on one bank at 1 mat, every once in a great while

I am going to submit plans showing the Lint trap ( or pit) as the main p-trap for the drain system. I was going to use the lint tubs, I still may in conjunction with the pit.
The problem I have found, we all know, is front loaders have the dump valve, all the little things, paper clips, pins, ear rings, chains, pencils, coins etc, make there way into the p-trap they rust and become a big chunk over time.
With this poll it should help show every machine does not need trap.
It will be some time before submitting the master plan, I will let you know how it works out.

[detlaundry]

We have each trough drain into a p-trap. Still not sure why each washer would have to have a p-trap if there is no sewer gas to prevent from escaping (assuming that the sewer gas was already stopped at the trough or begginning of the bank with another p-trap.)

Whatever you do, i would stay away from a certain company that makes pre-fab troughs. I don't want to name any specifically, but 2 of the letters in the name are H-M.

[Todd]

detlaundry, what negative experience have you had with the company, share your input with the rest of us.

[cardinal]

I am installing (2) 35 pound Maytag front loaders. I am having to install a p trap for these. This is a four inch drain line. All drain lines are located above the floor. How high above the drain line input should the machine drain outlet be to insure proper draining? The drain outlet is located 4 inches above the bottom of the machine.

Thanks for any help

Will

[pete f]

I have washers that hook into drain lines above the floor, they are just above the drain line level. As long as you keep it all flowing in one direction...
The washer tubs sit quite higher, the risk of back up is negitable. I am not sure what code is, if any.

[Rondo]

Forget the p trap and install a back flow valve. Call your local under ground pipe suppler and they can sell you one (they are inexpensive and are a simple valve that will allow water to flow one way and will not allow sewer gas to enter your machine)

[Rondo]

I know most of you don't understand what a back flow or back water valve is so this is what I'm talking about
http://www.multifittings.com/html/bwv/pdf/backwater%20cdn-us.pdf

This valve can eliminate the p trap in Laundromats all together.

When there is no water flow the flapper stays shut and keeps the sewer gases from flowing back into your machines and of course it stops water from backing up also.

[ajay]

buddy - from your diagaram(very nice btw) and the problem, it seems you're trying to treat the symptom but not the problem. My speculation is that this is happening when most of your washers are running simultaneously. If you put a second drain pipe and divide the load, it should resolve your issue. So for example, if you have 20 washers connected to one drain pipe, now you'll have 10 washers to each drain pipe.

ajay