Front loader reliability

[n175h]

I'm considering buying some large frontloaders (55lb and up) (unimac, Huebsch, or Speed Queen) for my store. I currently have 12 Maytag (unimac) 35lb washers 1993 models.
I've been very pleased with them as far as maintenance.

I remember a post a while back of a poll for fronts and Wasco came in first for most owned by the respondents. That kind of makes me lean toward purchasing Wascos.

I was wondering for the the washers you currently have, how much maintenance have you done since purchase. Like me for instance, on my 12 Maytag (unimac) washers I've never replaced a door gasket, never replaced a timer, overhauled 6 of 12 with bearings and seals, (number 7 is coming this week), replaced two coin mechanisms, 4 drain valves, lots of belts, about 10 diaphrams in the water valves, a couple of door lock solenoids, one 3 phase contactor, never replaced a motor, never replaced a shaft.

This is all in 11 years of hard use. I don't know about you, but I consider that pretty good. These are the parts that I know I've had to purchase. It doesnt include things like stopped up drains, overloads and such. I'm just talking about big parts purchasing and replacement.

In one of the threads of the poll of most owned down the board, one respondent wrote that unimac was juuuuuunnnk. Perhaps the newer stuff is.

Also, in the 80lb thread further down the board Mungo Spike wrote about his bad experience with 80lb Huebsch washer bearings. This gives me pause and frightens me since Unimac, Huebsch, and Speed Queen are all the same washer.

I've looked at Maytag fronts and am not really fond of Primus, plus the price is so much higher.
Dexter is out because my Dexter distributor owns 10 laundries and competes with guys he sells to (and me) (I won't buy from a distributor who operates laundries)
I know nothing about Wasco other than what you guys tell me.

That is why I'm leaning toward Unimac, Huebsch, Speed Queen.

Anyone care to share their maintenance experience so we can kind of compare apples to apples, so to speak.

Thanks,
David

[mrcranky]

i have only heard good things about wascomat.

[Gary C]

that's too bad about Dexters they really are good washers. Can you buy them from another dist. out of your area? Try Teeters.com

Gary

[n175h]

I can only buy dexters if I go out of area and pick them up myself. They will not ship to me out of their area. I do like the front soap dispensers on them.

Why do you think they are really good washers? How long have you had yours and how much repairs?

Thanks,

David

[Anonymous]

Have you looked into getting Milnors? They come in 25,40,60,80lb.

http://www.milnor.com/modeldetails0.asp?category=5&class=21&series=34&model=20

[Anonymous]

I have to second the vote for Milnors. I used one while on vacation at another store and could not believe how much better it worked than the new Gen 6 Wasco's I had just put out on the floor in my store.

That said, when I started an addition a few months ago to put in a seperate area for WDF, Milnors were the machines I chose. I've been using them for about three weeks now and they beat the pants off any machine I've ever used.
I KICK myself now for putting in those Wascos. If I thought I could sell my Wascos for a decent price I'd just about do it and put in Milnors... THAT'S how pleased with them I am.

Don't over look these guys.

Dave

[Anonymous]

Glad to hear you like the Milnors, but... Would you give us a point by point explanation of what it is you like about them and specifically what they do better than the Wascos. Also how do they compare in price against the other machines.

[n175h]

I'm looking at a picture of a Milnor in the Coin Op magazine article the "BIG BOYS", which is describing all the available hard mount fronts.

Don't be offended, but those washers are not very attractive to look at. The machine just has a dated look to it. I realize that shouldn't be much of a factor in buying a reliable machine, but personally, I have reservations about how they look.

Also, according to the article they are only available in colors and not stainless steel.

Regardless of that, tell us what you like about them compared to Wascos or other brands.

Thanks,

David

[laundryboy]

I have four of the Huebsch 60#'s. Bought new almost one year ago. Customers love them and I have not had any problems. Well, some of the panel screws have come out!!

Ask me in another year or two - after the warranties expire.

[n175h]

Laundryboy,

Do your customers have any difficulty reaching the soap dispensers? What did you have to do to your floor to mount the beasts? After reading the posts down the board about 80lb washers, I think 60lbs are about as big as I want to go.

Thanks,

David

[pete f]

I'm looking at a picture of a Milnor in the Coin Op magazine article the "BIG BOYS", which is describing all the available hard mount fronts.

Don't be offended, but those washers are not very attractive to look at. The machine just has a dated look to it. I realize that shouldn't be much of a factor in buying a reliable machine, but personally, I have reservations about how they look.

Also, according to the article they are only available in colors and not stainless steel.

Regardless of that, tell us what you like about them compared to Wascos or other brands.

Thanks,

David

If there was a Milnor dealer nearby, I would consider them. I have 1 Milnor, I bought used 6 years ago, it was built in the 70's. I have put a couple boards in for the coin drop, the first one only went to $3.00 and I now charge $4 it is a 35# model. People are drawn to the thing, it is ugly, but big. They use a double motor system. I had one mat I threw out a Milnor to replace it with a 55# Dexter. The Milnor was at leat 35 years old, ran like a top. Stainless all around. I just need bigger machine. I have many Dexters washers, some get used hard. I have replaced a couple water valves, 1 belt, a couple door pins so far. I agree about buying from the hand that swats you, I would never buy Alliance products for that same reason. Maytag may be more, but from what I have seen, built a little tougher than SQ or Dexter. I have no Wasco experiance. I did buy all maytag for my new store, and I paid a higher price for them than any quote I got from other brands. Check back in a few years, I will tell you if it was worth it or not.

[Ken]

I don't like Wasco Gen 6 .
A few reasons:
1,When the water doesn't drain,the door can not be opened,bad for unattendant store,even fully attendant store.Wasco told me ,it was for safty reason.
2,Not stainless steel door.
3,pay extra for stainless front panel.
4,Same light body as Gen 5.
5,Same door lock system as Gen 5.
I sold my Gen5,replaced them with Gen 4 a few years ago.You will see a lot people rebuild and sell Wasco Gen 4,not many people rebuild Gen5,since it is not worth to rebuild them.I am glad Wasco still has the same bearing system but don't like their new design.
One of my laundromat is in the "War Zone",almost every dealer build stores in that town ,I guess I have to buy machines out of state.

[n175h]

Pete,

Thanks for the feedback. I'm glad I'm not insulting anyone by my concerns about the looks of the Milnors, so it's not just me. Just curious, why did you decide on the Maytags in your new place instead of Milnors? I've priced a Maytag 60lb washer and it was $1500 higher than the Huebsch or Speed Queen. Also, I've visited with a couple of owners who say their customers really dislike the difficulty in reaching the soap dispenser on the Maytag/primus. Some have resorted to little step stools. That sounds like a fall waiting to happen.

Thanks guys for your comments. Keep um coming!

David

[PeterH]

In my 5 years of having an unattended store, I have never had a Wasco NOT drain. It may drain slow, but the water does go. I rather get the call that the 'mat has a power outage and clothes are safely locked in a machine than get the call that the 'mat has a power outage and the place is flooded.

I think the Gen 6 bodies are lighter than the Gen 5's. My 6's have much more shimmy to them.

I have 2 W655's in my store. People love them and they do a great job. They are tall and vertically-challenged customers do have a hard time getting to the dispensers.

Wascomat has not messed up the design to the point that I'd switch brands. I definitely recommend them again. Besides, their 65# and 80# washers are the older, sturdier OPL design. Id' get them if I had the demand for them.

[pete f]

Pete,

Thanks for the feedback. I'm glad I'm not insulting anyone by my concerns about the looks of the Milnors, so it's not just me. Just curious, why did you decide on the Maytags in your new place instead of Milnors? I've priced a Maytag 60lb washer and it was $1500 higher than the Huebsch or Speed Queen. Also, I've visited with a couple of owners who say their customers really dislike the difficulty in reaching the soap dispenser on the Maytag/primus. Some have resorted to little step stools. That sounds like a fall waiting to happen.

Thanks guys for your comments. Keep um coming!

David

There is no Milnor dealer, and a bigger factor is it is a new store, so everything is new. The Maytag line has washers, dryers, and the dealerr has an in house card dept,as I am going to be card operated. Really, I get everything in one place. Another important reason is Maytags' new turbo wash system, which should save me thousands of dollars over the years, and the 5 year warranty. I am supprised you found a big price difference in the bigger capacity model, I found the smaller front loaders, 18's, 25's to be way more expensive than the 50's. I bought them anyway. If I was just adding a couple big washers to an existing coin store, and there was a Milnor dealer around, I would consider them, they are the battle tanks of battle tanks...Still water costs money, so the Maytag using 15% or more less water would be an issue to me, as I pointed out. I don't care for SQ products, I have a few. If you had to buy them go with the mechanical timer model, that press to start button on the EC? model sucks.

[n175h]

Pete,

I like that turbo wash feature the Maytag/primus offers, also. I suspect that the other brands may add that feature to the product line eventually. It would be easy to do. I still have an issue with the price difference. Perhaps I could get my maytag guy to come down a bit as I have always bought Maytag before. We may talk some more.

Back to the height issue. Have you seen the soap dispenser height as a problem for your customers? I'm talking about the bigger than 35Lb models.

Thanks,

David

[Ken]

Some customers like high/tall machines since they look BIG!
I had some 30 years old 25# Ametek Big Boy(Ametek doesn't make washer since 80),they look like 50# washer,when I replaced them with Wasco 124 30# washer, took a while for my customers to use them.They thought they were smaller .
I have some Wascomat 18# in 6 " base,some in 8" base,most customers don't want to use the 6" base machines,I finnally change them to all 8" bases.
Wascomat Gen6 is a very tall machine too, I won't warry about how tall the washer is,tall machines look BIG!

[n175h]

Ken,

That's a good point I never thought of. I guess the marketing perception is taller = bigger and consequently = more clothes washed. So apparently the height of the soap dispenser is a non issue for everyone.

Back to my original subject of reliability. It seems there is no real consensus. It is all in what one likes best. Wasco seems to be the best price. I've had great success with my Maytag/Unimac and I really like them. However, that doesn't mean Alliance still makes them as good as they did in 1993. Quality seems to have worsened over the past decade on everything in the industry.

Milnor is built like a tank, but again the appearance gives me pause. Dexter, I just can't

No one has mentioned Continetal Girbau or Ipso.

I'm no closer to a decision in what I want than I was a month ago. I'll wait for some more of your replies.

Thanks,

David

[pete f]

Ken,

I'm no closer to a decision in what I want than I was a month ago. I'll wait for some more of your replies.

Thanks,

David
LOL!! thats what you get when you get all the cooks in the kitchen!

What meets YOUR needs? that is what to buy. All machines have pro and con, we can talk you in and out of them at will ....look at your distrib, service, then go over the finer points of opperational, warranty, etc. If you are attended you can buy anything.

[PeterH]

I've been helping a friend of mine that has Continental equipment. You just can't beat the look of these machines, kind of like a Milnor if they put a modern cabinet around it. His customers love them because they are so huge! And they are rock solid. Great curb appeal aside, I find them to be quirky -- but that is coming from a Wasco fan. The wash cycle is very different (short wash, long first rinse with bleach, doesn't spin out after every rinse, and the cold selection give a gentle tumbling pattern), the dispenser is not quite logical when you first see it, the door lock mechanism is the heated coil type, the electronics on the mechanical model aren't as intuitive, the little trap door to get into the drain.

[Ken]

To know "HOW BIG IS THE WASHER",you need to read the tech info,how many qbft inside.Most customers want them look big!
If you put a washer on floor other one on 6" base,the taller will get more TPD.
I saw a laundromat(not my store) had "50# washer" sign on top 30# washer for over 10 years since 30# is the largest machines in town,nobody know the difference.
Tall,Big door,Stainless steel make machines look good and BIG.
I don't have SQ 80# but know a few people had bearing job done for 6,7 years old machines ,very expensive bearing job!
You need to look machines history,price,parts price,tech suppor,Wascomat has the best tech suppor,some companys tech suppor is very poor,call factorys to ask questions now,if they won't return your call now,they won't the questions after you buy them.

[Rich]

I have 4 35# Milnors, 24 years old and wish I had 4 more. People are drawn to these thing like they were gold. They get twice as many turns as any other machine in the store. Very few brake downs. I think big and ugly is a good thing some times.
On the other hand I have 4 Wasco 105's, they look much smaller then my other double load machine's and get the least amount of turns in the store. I have had no problems with the Wasco's, they are good machines. Just do not get much use compared to the rest of the machines in the store.

[blueridgemat]

I am a newbie. Started mat 2 years ago. Mix is 10 Huebsch 30lb'ers and 12 Maytag Netunes. no complaints with Huebsch except that I wish it had a short cycle to clean machine with that you didn't have to open top to access. We are attended mat so we like to be able to clean the machines regularly. Any ideas on how to increase WFD business? I hate to see all those big machines just setting unused during the weekdays. We are in rural area. I advertised wash fold dry on my sign but I don't think people realize exactly what that means ( though you think the title would be self-explanatory!)

Yours truly,

Kevin B. - Blue Ridge Laundromat, Dobson, NC

[pete f]

Virtually all machines have a way to set them on a particular cycle. I have rarely "cleaned" a machine by running it, though have wiped out the insides of those that get to much hair, dirt, etc.
You should call thee dealer to find out how to run a cycle, maybe even post here under Repairs topic, MK will know what to do, just list your machine model for him..

I see this is your first post, so welcome, and now that you broke the silence, the next thread you start or respond to will be easy...

[DuboisLaundry]

customers may recognize WDF as "Fluff & Fold", try putting that on your sign instead. Or maybe people in your area would rather wait around and do their own laundry

[n175h]

I went to the Milnor website and studied the product. I don't understand why they don't make the cabinet run straight up and make the the whole machine square. It would move all the controls forward and the customer wouldn't have to reach over the top of the tub to operate it. They do look like a tank, however. I noticed the mounting flanges are forward the machine cabinet so you get to stub your toe on the bolts if you get too close to the machine. Has this ever been a problem for anyone? Do you mount them straight to the concrete or on a raised base?

Is it difficult to clean the area below the soap inlet where the cabinet meets the stainless drum? It appears all spilled soap would dribble down to that crack and cake up there.

Also, the cabinet looks to be powder coated instead of stainless steel. How do yours look after about 5 to 7 years of operation? I've always been partial to all stainless steel because of easy cleaning and no rusty panels.

Please note that even though I am somewhat pooh-poohing the looks of the machine, I take great interest in a product that you guys tell me is still working after 24 years. That feature overcomes a lot of aesthetic drawbacks.

Thanks,

David

[Ken]

Milnor is very big in OPL market,they don't really design machines for coin op market,their machines are the same washer as their OPL model,only Milnor dealer in my area is a drycleaner dealer.
You can always repaint the washer after a few years.
My friend have Milnor,Wascomat and SQ in one store,the Milnor and Wascomat 50# have highest TPD.
Not many serviceman service Milnor in my area and the bearing job not easy are the reason I won't choice Milnor.

[MichaelCa]

n175h wrote: "No one has mentioned Continental Girbau..."

I'll mention it: I love it. My favorite machine in my store.
Inside you can see the quality everywhere - it also runs smooth, fast, and solid.

And it has the bonus of a Milnor-type advantage: Because of the unusual Door/front design, any model looks far bigger than it actually is. Yes, this trick does work in practice: everyone thinks they're getting a good deal.

Sortof a combination of an industrial-look but toned down to look attractive too. My customers who use them, are dedicated fans.

This line came from, & still is mainly sold to, very-high use OPL, unlike SQ & Wasco. (hey no attacks from Wasco-heads, i'm sure they're fine too, there there - groan -)

I would, and will, definitely buy again.

[dougyg]

It is now time for me to decide which front loader to buy that will replace my SQ Super Load IIs. All the machines that I looked at were good and have pros and cons but all meet my basic requirements. If anybody could point out any other pros/cons it would be helpful. My short list is:

Dexter T-400

Pros - I like the ability to run single or 3 phase on the same machine. Demensions are good, door opening is large. Price is exceptable, good looking machine.

Con - There is a another store in town that have Dexters and I wanted to have something different, no experience with this brand


Wascomat W630

Pros - dependable, I have some history with Wascomats, dimensions are good, door opening is good, galvanized frame, interchangeable parts.

Con - Pricey compared to other maufacturers, no stainless steel on the sides,


Ipso WE-95

Pro - price is the best of the lot, easy to do bearing job, good looking machine

Con - ability to get parts?, door opening is too small for a 25 lb machine, no experience with this brand

[pete f]

Not to throw you off completelty, but you had mentioned in another post you want to relace a bank of 25'supers. How many large machines do you have, ie, 35's, 40;s? I replaced a bank of supers a few years ago, 5 to the bank. I put in 2 Dexter 40's 2 Dexter 25's, and kept one super 20. I only had 1 35# Milnor at that time, and am very glad I put in the 2 40's. They get used extensivley. Just noting this because you can put one in the same slot as a super 20.. if you have a little room behind them. Mine were tight, a belt or water vavle no problem, replacing the motor may be tough, but the money I have made from it would make it worth it.

I have Dexter, and IPSO, and SQ experiance. I like the Dexter, especially for unattended. The IPSO have been great, less door leak problems than Dexter. The leak is cuased by customers, it takes such a small thing to make them leak, like a shoe string between the door gasket and frame, it is part of the design. IPSO biggest problem was it's funny door handle, but now that has been changed. I will also say you can call IPSO direct and talk to service people. I did have a board out of warranty and they replaced it for me. There was issues with that series. The ones you are looking at do not have board problems that I know of.

[Ken]

I am not big fan of Dexter but T400 is the best looking 25# in market and maybe the easier replacement to Super 20,since they are almost same size.

[dougyg]

Pete,

I currently have the following in the store

7 - SQ Super Loads - 3 broke 4 running
6 - Neptunes
7 - SQ top loaders (very old and will be replaced eventually)
5 - 35 lb Milnors
27 - SQ 30 lb dryers

and space for 17 more top or small front loaders (water and sewer connections already there)

The machines that I place in the space can not exceed ~32" in depth without major work in plumbing and possibly the drain.

The Ipsos look nice but my main concern is the size of the door opening, the spec sheet says 11 13/16 inches vs 15.25 for Dexter and 14 3/8 for Wasco. Is the Ipso opening actually that small?

[MichaelCa]

Ken, i agree that the T-400 is the best looking 25LB, plus it gets good reviews from many owners, and there are some used ones available - but i'm wondering:

Is it a 'better' replacement for Super II's in Water-usage, or other factors?
I bought 2 old Super II's to fill the gap between the 18-20lb Auroras and the 35 Lb Continentals.... but the reality is they get the least TPD than anything.
Maybe there isn't enough of a size difference from customers perspective ?
I'm at $ 2.75 for the Super II, and $ 3.25 for 35lb

[n175h]

I called my distributor for Maytag. The 80lb washer is $11k. Wow, that is almost 4 times the 35 lb washer.

The Milnor dist told me their is no coin lock out when the door is open. If you put in coins when open, you lose the credit. You Milnor guys have that problem? That would be very poor engineering in my opinion.

David

[pete f]

I called my distributor for Maytag. The 80lb washer is $11k. Wow, that is almost 4 times the 35 lb washer.

The Milnor dist told me their is no coin lock out when the door is open. If you put in coins when open, you lose the credit. You Milnor guys have that problem? That would be very poor engineering in my opinion.

David

I do not know about the new ones, but mine if the door is not closed the coin is returned. Some machines lock the coin mech so no coin can be out in (SQ) I think that causes more trouble.

[pete f]

Doug, I guess your best bet is to stay with 25's. I wanted more bigger machines. You can turn those Milnors into 50's, 55's in time if need to.
I do not know about the IPSO door on the 25.
The Dexter says triple load on them even though they are 25# capacity, so you can charge more even though it is not a real triple.

[Ken]

You don't have any 50#,if the space allow,I will add 50#.
If you want a direct repacement,Dexter T400 is the answer.
T400 has largest door for 25# washer,they even look bigger then Wascomat 124 30# washer,don't know much about new WASCO or IPSOP.SQ's 27# has big door but the 25# use same door as 18#.