Lighting

[tgifbos]

What kind of lighting is the best for a laundromat? What type of fixtures do you use?

thanks for the info!

[anonymous]

Two years ago I replaced all the old 8 foot fluorescents with 4 foot fixtures of the energy saving variety. At the time, they used the lowest amount of electricity possible, and the tone of the light is quite nice. I also have white ceiling and interior walls to help the light "bounce" into the corners that might otherwise be a bit dim.

If you have a copy of the Grainger catalog, they have a selection of fixtures at relatively reasonable prices. Also, the catalogs can be ordered from Grainger online. Guidance might also be found through your local electrical utility. They might be able to steer you to the most efficient lighting.

[Rondo]

It doesn't matter what size bulbs(length) or fixtures just make sure they have electronic ballasts and T-8 bulbs. Florescents bulbs are measured in 1\8" increments so a standard bulb is a T-12 (1 1/2") The T-8s are 1" and they last longer put out more light and save you half the electricity when combined with the electronic ballast and they also put out less heat. Go to a Electrical supply house and price them, Grainger is a little pricey for me.

The electrical supply house should help you with the layout and fixture sizes if you supply them with your square footage.

[Anonymous]

OK, so how much money can you save replacing the T12 with T8 and what is the cost to install new T8 fixtures and bulbs?

[pete f]

T-8 fixtures, 2 8' bulb or 2 4' drop ins are about the same price, about $50 per fixture. I think a 2 bulb T-8 saves about $5 a month over an old 4 bulb t-12, from previous experiance. I swaped out 4 t-12 for 2 t-8, the brightness was about the same.

[Anonymous]

You've got me confused here, the T12 units have two 8' bulbs, for equivalent light don't you need two T8 fixtures and 4 T8 bulbs. So, is that $100 for the fixtures? Then are you saying that you will save $5/month for the equivalent 8 feet?

[Fred50]

Check with your local utility for rebates for replacing fixtures.

Kirby,

NJ has a Smart Buildings program sponsored by the utilities. They pay up to $40 / fixture which almost pays the full cost, so your energy savings goes right to the bottom line, especially if you install them yourself.

The URL is:

http://www.njsmartstartbuildings.com/main/equip_inc.html

[Rondo]

You can retro fit your exsisting fixtures with electronic ballasts and the t-8 bulbs. the new ballasts will mount in your fixtures with no modifications all though the bulb wiring is different it is easily done. I retroed one of my stores that had 4 - 4' bulb fixtures that had 2 ballasts in each fixture, I elimated 2 bulbs and 1 ballasts and still had more light with this system. Remember your lights run all the time your open even when you have no customers. If you can receive a rebate for new fixtures go for it, I'd be all over that.

When you upgrade to electronic ballasts if one bulb goes out the other on keeps burning, not like the old tranformer type ballasts.

[Fred50]

Rondo,

The only thing that you miss on a retrofit is that the new parabolic fixtures give off more light with less wattage because of the reflective material and the shape of the fixture. No question that a retro is less work and less cost if you don't have rebates available.

[SudsMan]

Hi Folks... Being a retired, and old, master electrician, I agree with all that's been said with regards to T-8s vs T-12s, electronic ballasts, etc. Even the cost of operation and payback. I use T-8s. They do have a somewhat shorted life than T-12s and electronic ballasts don't last as long, but nothing that the average person will notice.

But all this technical stuff doesn't address the more basic question of just what lighting to use. So here's my two cents on the subject.

In today's world you have two choices when it comes to lighting. You can go for establishing a "mood" or go for light level. The "mood" approach means that the lighting must be in line with and compliment the decor and appearance of the mat. If you want a warm, homey look, you need a low amount of light coming from the ceiling and more accent lighting around the walls, doors, sconces, walkways, etc. Just as in your home.

If you go for high light level you need more light coming from the ceiling. If you don't want the industrial look, than you don't want surface mount luminares. Go for drop in or recessed fixtures. Flourescents are the most efficient fixtures that are designed for indoor use. Incandescents are good for accent lighting but tend to be yellow, unless you use halogen bulbs($$$).

I remodeled my place a couple of years ago and put in a string of drop in U-bulb fixtures right over the top of my washers. The idea was to get light onto the clothes as the customer was putting their clothes into the washer. Well, at first I was scolded for "wasting" energy. My customers kidded me that I should sell sunglasses for use INSIDE the mat.

But the response was just what I wanted. "Wow, what a clean, bright place", and such. We didn't change the way we ran the store or the way we cleaned it. But we did add a lot of ceiling lights and that brightened the place up. Net, the customer thinks we clean the place all the time and we only hit it 2 or 3 times a day. Brightness counts. Brightness also contributes to a feeling of safety, something our lady customers really notice and comment on in the evening hours of operation. BTW, be sure to keep a lot of light on at night when you are closed to imporve security. Burgulars HATE light. And, the more light you have, the less chance you have of someone "tripping".

Of course the wall coverings and such play into mat lighting. We have white Formica walls with a full length mirror behind the washers. As was said in earlier postings, this type of wall covering serves to bounce the light around.

Sorry for this epistle. Anyone who want so discuss any specific lighting idea or problem is encouraged to email me directly.

Hope this all helps.

[Anonymous]

I've always felt the more light the better. When people starting coming in with Suntan oil and blankets - I'll re-think this. No, maybe I won't. But my wife will - and she holds trump.

But help me out on the money saving part of this. In MN, we spend most of the year heating the building. Isn't most of the "wasted" energy in lighting actually lost in the form of heat ? In MN, we don't call this "wasted" energy. So I look at the business case for this with a skeptical eye. Sure, I suppose I'd net SOME savings, but I'd ball park that I'd get only half of what is stated.

[Fred50]

SuperDave,

I am quite analytical, but even I didn't look into heat "loss" when I looked at the savings from switching from T-12 to T-8 fixtures.

The true savings as I see it is in the savings in KWH of electricity given the same or more lumens of light output.

In addition, at least in NJ there is a rebate program for replacing T-12 fixtures.

[Anonymous]

Yes, much is lost in the form of heat - but electric resistance heating is a VERY expensive way to heat.

[Fred50]

Kirby,

How do you take heat loss into account when deciding whether to replace older flourescent fixtures?

[JeffLange]

he is joking

[Andy]

I am think of removing my drop ceiling and taking out my older florescent fixtures (drop ins). This would expose the roof trusses and the underside of the roof deck. I would spray it white. This is the standard for new construction today. Look at Staples, Home Depot, Walmart. Very few new retail construction projects use drop ceilings anymore. I would then replace the lighting with the most suitable/efficient type.

Any of you have exposed ceilings?

[JeffLange]

I thought of doing this also. I was concerned with cleaning all the lint that would gather on the trusses, it would be a pain to clean. Also not sure if i want that warehouse look.

[Andy]

I don't think it is the "warehouse" look. If you look around most new retail construction projects are finished this way. With bright white paint to reflect the light and a good lighting plan I believe this is superior to drop ceiling. Heck I think using compressed air to blow the lint off the trusses once a year is easier and cheaper than replacing or cleaning a dingy drop ceiling overy two to three years. I replaced my drop ceiling four years ago and I should have replaced it last year ( I haven't yet) and I don't allow smoking.

Sometimes you will see that the grid was installed with drop in lights but no panels.

[Anonymous]

These state rebate programs may provide the push to drive a valid business case to change out lighting. maybe sometimes i joke too much but i mean well, this time there was a touch of seriousness. Sure, lumens/KWH will go up with hi efficiency lighting but that's not the whole story. laws of thermodynamics tell us that electrical energy doesn't just disappear , it gets 100% completely converted, to light, UV, infrared, heat, and gamma rays (there i go again). Same as your car. 100% of the energy of gasoline is converted (assuming complete burn) but only 20% or so actually gets used to propel you to the mat every day. The other 80% is wasted as heat in your radiator, mechanical trasmission loss in bearings and friction, skid marks, etc. I believe the vast majority of energy "loss" in lighting is in the form of heat. And i USE heat. Sure it costs more to heat w/ electricity than NG, but even if it cost twice as much (and I'm comparing 70% to 100% efficiency lighting on my $1200 annual light bill) - I'd only save about $150/yr. Bottom line, At 60 clams per 4 foot unit, (and i'd need 48 units) - i'd only be looking at a 19 year payback. (not even counting installation and bulbs) This is why the state rebate programs exist.

This is probably more than anyone cares to talk about on this subject , eh ? How about you Canadiens ? You guys have heat bills don't you ?

[mike]

Sure, we Canadians use heat, we just throw another log on the fire to heat the hot water to scrub the clothes, of course a by-product is being able to hang the clothes in front of the fire to dry. (A very efficient operation until we get electricity).
On drop-off we charge 2 beaver-pelts per load.

[Anonymous]

Oh Canada !
There's a market for clean buckskins in Canada ?
I've never been to the great nation of Canada. Waiting until i can dish off 1 of my 3 full jobs. When I get rid of all of these job things, I'm going to buy me a fish pole and a big skeeto gun to defend myself and move there.

[pete f]

I did what Rondo did at my last store I remodeled. Yanked the 4 bulb t-12's, put in 2 bulb t-8's, all drop in. I eliminated alltogether a few fixtures. No rebate program, at $50 each I figure payback is about 18 months. Save about $4 a month each.

I have another store with open ceiling,, though it is flat cieling, not warehouse beam style. I use 8' twin bulb t-8's
The ceiling is white, it looks clean, the fixtures are plain, but look OK.

[Rondo]

One thing that I didn't mention, make sure to buy the bright white bulbs and not the warm or soft white T-8s. They give a very undersirable brown tone that doesn't look good in a business climate.