Oversuds cause no-spin

[Anonymous]

Question: Does over-sudzing directly cause machines not to spin out? How so?

Quote from another post:

"even though 95 % of my refunds are ALWAYS for the same thing: @#!% no-spin/wet . I usually include a brief note explaining about over-soap, and thanking them for their business. "

[pete f]

buy a Neptune and you will understand,, Grasshopper

Clue: suds do NOT pump out, as suds are suds, not water, IE, liquid

[BWJR]

Yes, Pete you are correct. Since the 21's use about a5 gal. of water we sometimes get a situation wher the clothes come out with soap, but the machine will sense an over suds situation and continue to fill with more water to get out most of the soap. i assume the other high-efficiency washers do the same. Horizon, SQ and WE-16.

BWJR

[MichaelCa]

PeteF: Your response had me rolling :))

[CharlieS]

Several years ago I ran into a midwest Maytag distributor who cured most of my problems with the Neptunes with a simple suggestion.

Eliminate the oversuds option and add a one minute prewash. Yes, it takes a few more gallons, but the prewash dumps all of the excess soap that everyone puts in and leaves plenty still in the clothes.

I've never had a customer complain about the long washes due to the oversuds option since, and only occasionally get the didn't spin complaint.

Charlie

[MichaelCa]

How does the pre-wash get rid of the suds ? Since it also has to be pumped out, wouldn't the same sequence of problems occur: i.e. suds trying to be pumped out after the pre-wash ?

[CharlieS]

The pre-wash runs for only one minute. There aren't a lot of suds created, and the excess soap runs out. The remaining soap stays in the clothes (there is no spin after the prewash. I guess that the real difference is simply that the excess soap is dumped up front. Anyway, it seems to work for me.

Charlie

[pete f]

the last new neptunes I got came with a sticker that says ""1 tablespoon of soap only" and of course it is right next to the liquid bleach dispensor. Guess where that soap ends up many times? And it is more than the recomended tablespoon!!
For all it is worth, if you have proper signage the Neptunes do have a loyal following once they learn how to use them, and there is no better front load soft mount for that kind of money available right now.

[PeterH]

Sudsy detergent in a front loader, after the usual 6 minute wash cycle turns most of the water in the drum first to bubbles, then to suds, and finally to lather. There is usually no spin between the wash and the first rinse, and the short 1 minute rinse is not enough to break the suds. The short 30 second spin also is not enough to force the lather down the drain. Two more rinses later, and there still is lather in drum. The machine goes into spin, the lather whips around the drum, does not go down the drain, and the load comes out too wet.

Customers using softener never have this problem...

Ever notice that the 18# washers are usually the problem? I've never seen this in my 30# and larger machines. I guess more water in the bigger drum dilutes and dissolves suds better.

With toploaders, it is usually the towels that have a problem. The fibers catch soap and with spinning forcing first the water then air thru the load creates lather in the outer tub, slowing the spin and hampering rinsing.

[MichaelCa]

Thanks for the detailed explanation - i finally get it.

And yes, i did wonder why my 30lb never have this problem - or apparently anybody elses.

(same for my Super2's)

[TotoMongo]

Originally posted by PeterH

Customers using softener never have this problem...


I actually saw an attendant pour some softener into a washer that had waaay too much detergent in it. Asked her why she did this she claimed in her best engrish that washing with that much soap would break the machine because the was no longer any liquid in the machine. Oddly enough, it made sense to me immediately.

I wonder if a sign explaining the same could be posted to help customers better understand why not to over soap.

Fito

[Winston]

Customers don't seem to want to read anything. I have signs on every front loader stating the proper amount of soap to use. In one case the machine's sign said "For best results use 1/2 cup powder or 1/2 cap liguid soap"... big letters. I watched a customer pour at least 100 oz of liquid detergent into the washer. Still not satisfied, she then turned the soap container upside down in the soap box to drain every last drop!

[TotoMongo]

Originally posted by Winston
I watched a customer pour at least 100 oz of liquid detergent into the washer. Still not satisfied, she then turned the soap container upside down in the soap box to drain every last drop!

That would be funny if I didnt see something very similar recently. The poor dope poured 3/4 of a large bottle of Trend into a 35#r.

Are you guys not educating properly? Is there a better way to show them the error of thier ways? Or does the detergent industry have people blindfolded?

Toto

[Anonymous]

The suds cause the level control to sense the basket is full of water causing the level control to hold out the spin relay.This is a basic function of the washer trying to protect itself from shaking excessively.All manufacturers do the same thing in one form or another.

[TotoMongo]

Originally posted by DEXTER ROB
causing the level control to hold out the spin relay.

What does this mean and why is it bad?

Toto

[Anonymous]

Its not a bad thing it means that the level control has done its job to protect the washer.When the level control senses the suds it "defaults" not signaling the spin relay and lets the drum just continue along in wash speed.This is also the case if you have a clogged drain valve or a bad pump.I hope this is clear.

[pete f]

Originally posted by TotoMongo
That would be funny if I didnt see something very similar recently. The poor dope poured 3/4 of a large bottle of Trend into a 35#r.

Are you guys not educating properly? Is there a better way to show them the error of thier ways? Or does the detergent industry have people blindfolded?

Toto

This is why dump valve drains are the best, and you can't get them with Neptunes. Dump all that soap.

[TotoMongo]

Originally posted by pete f
This is why dump valve drains are the best, and you can't get them with Neptunes. Dump all that soap.

Clarify for the newbie please!

[bvlaundry]

does anyone know how much water the prewash cycle would use??thanks

[Anonymous]

The number of gallons for pre wash is about 10 for an 18 lb. front load and about 8 for a neptune.

[CharlieS]

A neptune only uses about 18 gallons for an entire cycle. I would expect the prewash to use no more than 3 to 5 gallons.

[Anonymous]

How many water changes are yours programmed for?I think you're probably right that I'm to high(save the jokes)but I think its got to be more than 3 to 5.I'm real curious to know the real #'S.

[pete f]

Originally posted by TotoMongo
Clarify for the newbie please!

Hard mount machines have a dirrect valve that opens and all the water, suds, whatever goes directly down the sewer drain. There is no pump, so trying to pump suds is not an issue. Suds will "float" down a drain just fine, though I remember in one old mat I had if someone really put the powder to one of the machines, the rest would fill partly with suds when the wash cycle dumped. I guess this is a reason for P-traps, which I did not have at that mat. Still don't have them at any. Another discussion. I think it had more to do with the drain pipes not being at a correct incline.