change machine

[JeffLange]

What is your favorite brand of change machine and why?

[Rondo]

Standard Changemaker! But to be honest I've owned only one other brand and that was a undersized Hamliton that had to be sent back to their repair center many times. I've owned 3 Standards and I'm happy with them and their tech support.

[pete f]

I like Rowe. The BC 1200 series has been very reliable, and has some secuity/stringing features.
Other than 1 old Hamlitoon, I have always had Rowe, kind of like Rondo, not alot of experiance with other brands.

[Howard]

I like Standard. Their tech service, on the telephone, is outstanding.

Unfortunately, their actual repair quality is fair, at best, their turnaround time is long, and their cost is outrageous. If you can do some basic electronics work yourself, go with Standard.

[anonymous]

The cummulative family experience with Standard has exceeded 40 years. We've always had good luck with them. Repairs used to be made locally, but the local fix-it firm decided not to work on certain brands anymore, and Standard was one of them.

In the past I needed work done by Standard in CA on an older model. They estimate that time on "the bench" is 48 hours. I only needed to ship to them twice -- once for a hopper, and once for the verifier itself. In both cases I shipped overnight, and requested that they ship back the same way. So that is four days of giving out quarters by hand. What a #*!?#!!! That is why I eventually replaced the older version with a double-verifier model so if one side went down, the other would still be up and running.

Standard's phone help-line is prompt, friendly and knowledgable. And their product seems to be quite stout. Oh, yeah..... In over 40 years our various Standard machines never, EVER gave out money for a bogus bill. And stringing was never successfully accomplished. Don't think they didn't try!

[Fred50]

I think that the best changer is a card machine!!

[anonymous]

Mark --

I must agree with you there. After all those years with change machines I, too, switched over to cards. It was a marketing decision that has already increased my clientelle after only 7 weeks! I had the cards printed like little promo billboards that people carry around in their wallets. If asked where a good laundry is located, they whip out the card and promote my business. FREE advertising with a personal testimonial. I love FREE. And I am FREE from quarters.

[buddy]

I like Standard Change Machine ..Very Reliable. I also own a small
Rowe Machine (BC100) and it's been a nightmare. Every week the thing goes down with different messages. It hasn't worked more than a week at a time. The funny thing is this ROWE machine is not used much at all, we hardly ever use it and it still it goes down. We hammer the heck out of Standard Change Machine and it keeps running.

I would never buy ROWE Change machine ever.

[Howard]

For those of you that swear by card systems, what do you do when the customer wants quarters (for vending machines, arcade games, soap)? Also, do you back up the card machine that produces the credit part of the system?

[Howard]

If you experience an increase in business when first installing the card system, how do you judge whether or not the "increase" is the float or actual customers? Isn't it possible that you realized a 7% more revenue count, but lost 3 % of your customers this first week?

What percentage do you allow for losses and costs in operating the system (card expense, counterfeiters, tourists that turn away, telephone lines and commission charges for credit card use, etc.)?

[anonymous]

My store is fully attended, so customers can get quarters from a clerk or put bills in the vending machines, push the coin return button and get quarters back for the video games. The soap machines are also on cards.

I have the store data base backed up to 2 different computers: the one that was already in the store, and my lap-top at home. The system does an auto-fetch at about 4 am when we're closed (and I'm asleep) and downloads automatically. Before the night clerk leaves at about 11 pm, she flips a toggle on the phone line to switch our business phone line over to the computer line. If she forgets, the previous days file can be easily added to my lap-top the next day. The old computer at the store is connected by serial cable, so a phone line is not needed for it.

I negotiated a good deal with Easy Card (Dexter) and scammed 30,000 custom printed cards for free. Enough for 2 more lifetimes. This will be more than enough to handle lost or damaged cards. Plus I can use them in promo campaigns as little billboards with a bonus dollar added. Need to spend $25 in the store before the bonus dollar can be spent. If they come into my store once, I've got them.

If someone tries to use a card with a serial number that has not been scanned into the system, it will be rejected. The database keeps an account history on each card's serial number, and tells when the card was issued new, or reissued, what machines it has been used in, balance, and dates/times for everthing. How they gonna fake that?
Also, if I was a counterfeiter, I would want to counterfeit MONEY, not free washes. Then again, I think big.

Tourists are prompted to ring the bell at the counter for assistance. If they need a refund for the card after they are through, then we can handle that, too. It is surprising how many travellers have already used a card store somewhere else.

My system does not take debit or credit cards. I have an ATM machine that handles both self-serve and drop-off customers alike.

I've never tracked incremental volume changes by revenue, but by turns. Ceterus Paribus... if the 22 double-loaders go from their usual 6.19 turns to 6.84 turns, then I've had an increase in business. The best indicators are the new people who introduce themselves as such, go through the whole wash/dry process, tell the clerk that the system is awsome, add money to the card before they leave, " for next time", and walk out smiling. Of course, one needs an attended laundry for that smiley part at the end.

The "float" you mentioned can be tracked separately, or when printing the daily/weekly/monthly sales reports, it tells what has been collected, and what has been spent off the cards.

My system is all very simple, and most the stuff happens automatically within parameters that can be changed at the owners discretion.

[Anonymous]

Float is measured separately from revenue so it is no trouble to see that the card system increased my business. Plus, I am now sitting on 4 weeks worth of revenue in float after 2 years of operation. Anyone that wants change can get it from my attendant.

[pete f]

I have a Rowe BC100 at my small store, the thing has had a couple bill jams in a few years. It has never just "broke down"
There is something amiss with yours, maybe an upgrade missing or something. I also converted mine to take 10's also. Very simple. I got the harness from Scott at Suncoast changers.
You might try calling him and see if he can trouble shoot your machine... He is a one man operation, and has many years experiance with these things.

I have a BC1200 at the other store, backed up with a SBC-2 The BC1200 has been almost trouble free for 8 years.
The SBC-2 is like the Century Series, would not recomend that style for a mat. They are OK, just more work to them.
http://www.billchangers.com/

[Andy]

I have a new Hamilton that functions as it should. I chose Hamilton partly because they are located about 30 minutes from the mat I use it in- and they will service it the same day if you walk in.

[JeffLange]

Hamilton has been known to have numerous problems with people stringing their machines. Go to the carwashforum.com and read up on it. Rowe BC series seems to be the best out there.

[buddy]

Pete, I hardly ever use ROWE BC100. It is only meant to be used in a emergency. We have it behind the counter for attendants to use it if main changer jams or something. BC100 has never worked reliably. First I was getting Photo Detector Error. I replaced Photo Detector (Wasn't easy It took me 20 minutes to get the hopper out and 40 minutes to put it back in). It worked for couple weeks and now I am getting message
"L Hopper Empty" . The hopper is full of quarters. I push the reset button and it comes back on-line. Once you use it couple times the Darn things comes back with the same message "L Hopper Empty". Every day I push the reset button and it comes back with same message once we use it.

I called ROWE and they said you have to empty and clean the hopper may be there is a quarter jammed. I checked it and there is nothing jammed.

What a nightmare.

[JeffLange]

Sounds like a computer problem.

[Anonymous]

seems like the ROWE BC100 was a piece of junk. I have a BC150 and a BC1200. The BC150 has caused me alot of problems but the BC1200 has been a pretty decent machine over the years with just some minor problems that I've been able to fix myself (board replacement once).

However, my views changed with the new American machines that came with the 2nd mat i bought early this year. These American machines are built with a little flimsier cabinet but they are made to be very easy to fix compared to the Rowe. The design of the American is much much simpler than the Rowe. The two small American changers both had 250K dollars worth of quarters dispensed with no preventive maintenance or needed repairs. They also take bills much easier than Rowe's.

I'd by American before Rowe. my 2 cents.

[pete f]

I think your problem may be the hopper needs to be cleaned. The groove that the quarters sit in when the changer pulls them up gets little crap in over time. I clean mine twice a year. The quarters will fall out of the groove on the way up, making the changer think the hopper is empty. Take the hopper out, dump all the money out. Unsrew all the scews on both sides along the chain edge and the bottom. Alos unscrew the ones on the top and handle. The chain/drive unit will pull out when you open the hopper sides now. Clean it well, use degreaser stuff, and a little screwdriver to scrap the crud out of the groove. This should fix the problem.

[Howard]

A hint for anyone that doesn't already know:

Turn your money bags inside out when collecting coin and refilling the hoppers. This action will stop the threads from the bag getting into the coin dispnser mechanism and jamming it up.

[SudsMan]

Well here I go jinxing myself. I must agree with SuperDave on the American machines. I had two Rowes, the BC series, and actually replaced every component in each machine. Wire harness, computer board, hoppers, etc. And still had many interrmittant (I can't spell) problems.
I bought an American AC-2001, one verifier, two hoppers, in '94 and another in '98. The only repeat problems I've had are to clean the bottom of the hoppers and cleaning the photocells in the verifier. I've had one computer board go bad and it was fixed within a couple of days by American. I've purchased a second board as insurance.
The Americans aren't the tanks that the Rowes are, but they work. The newer American models are available with more "armor" on them for high security needs.
The company is easy to deal with too. That's my Quarters worth....

[Kitty]

Could the threads be the reason I had to unjam the hopper SAturday night at 830pm? For the past months I have had to take all the money out of the hoppers and refill again. Never saw anything in the hopper besides a quarter jamming it up.

[Ken]

Rowe and Standard tried to make "cheap model " to compete with American changer.I don't think they did a good job .I don't have any luck with Standard EC model at all.I have 3 of them,only set up for $1 only bacause I am tired of give refound.I had for 2 years,4 out of 6 hopper are out of order right now.All 6 hoppers have been repaired once ,twice last 2 years.
American Changer made best "cheap changer",they may not last 20 years but for the price,I can replace every 8-10 years.
I will not buy any new Rowe or Standerd.

[buddy]

Pete, you were right on the money. I cleaned the hopper and scrapped of some dirt from the grooves where quarters rise up and now BC100 works just fine.

Thanks for your help.

[CharlieS]

I have 5 standard changemakers. I have upgraded all to the new 600 series acceptors, and all are double hoppers. In addition, I have the bill to bill changer.

I have had no problems with these units, except for an occasional jam, or non-acceptance problems. Invariably, the non-acceptance was due to dirty tracks and scan heads. The coin feeder units and the bill storaage unit will start to give problems if they get dirty. Now, I empty the units regularly (every couple of weeks, blow them out with a can of compressed air, clean the drive area the same way, along with the bill storage unit. I clean the scan windows on the acceptor every other week and blow them clean as well. This has eliminated most of my minor jams and problems.

Nonetheless, I do keep an acceptor unit spare (Older 500E version). I haven't needed it yet, but the cost of being down is too painful.

The bill to bill gave me huge fits for a while. Turned out that the bill storage unit was missing a spring from the factory. They replaced it, and its worked pretty well ever since. This unit is a little more prone to jams than the coin changer, and requires that you check all of your bills for decent quality.

Charlie

[Fred50]

Is it true that bill-to-bill changers dispense multiple bills unintentionally when you put new/newer bills in them? For example, they stick together.

[CharlieS]

The bill to bill changer uses offsetting friction wheels, similar to most currency counting machines, to separate bills. Brand new bills, sticking together, may pass. The same is true for ATM machines. Ideally, you should have slightly used bills that are in good condition.

This has not been a problem for me. I recycle 5s and 10s, and augment from the bank as needed. I do take the time to quickly look at every bll and discard badly worn, torn, or taped bills. New bills can be interspersed with older bills.

Charlie

[Lar Hylobates]

Once again, not trying to be bad, but how could you not know you had to clean those hopper tracks?

I have to clean mine about twice a month. I just assumed that's what everyone does. There is a long handled brush that makes it about a 5 minute job.

Both of my Rowes 1200 & 3500 went down at the same time today. A VERY VERY odd occurance. Attendant was on duty, witnessed nothing unusual and actually was present during the first out of order. Two unrelated problems, minor!

This did not happen today, but has any Rowe user with a $20.00 setting had the first $10.00 drop and not the second? With no service light or error code?

This has happened 3 times supposedly in the past 6 months. I have given refunds of $10.00 on a $20.00 bill because the second $10.00 did not drop???

[Anonymous]

Gibbon man -
ive got a rowe 1200 and have never had that "2nd 10 not dropping" problem that you described. Considering how the machine counts and dumps, i agree that that is a strange problem.

[pete f]

I did have that problem at one time. The coins seemed to get stuck in the hopper pocket. I messed with it for some time, finanlly bought a new pocket thing, it is the complete frame part that the hoppers get put into. You may have a weak dump valve in that also. The whole thing comes out by undoing the 2 bolts towards the top under the hoppers if I remember correctly.


The brush I have, it justs helps put off doing the cleaning the right way!

[Anonymous]

I use that brush every other month or so to clean those slots. I haven't had good experience with it though.

#1 I can't really see those "speed bumps" in the slots very well to know where to really scrub.

#2 When i CAN see those dirty bumps, the nylon brush doesn't seem to take it off very well, even with vigorous scrubbing.

With an electric screwdriver, I take out the 700 screws that hold the thing together and scrub the slots with a small brass blade. That works the best for me.

WHen those slots are clean, the motor works about 1/2 as hard and you are less apt for coin jams in the bottom of the hopper.

[buddy]

Dave - Yes I used knife to scrape out those tough deposits.

Howard - Now I know that I have to clean the track periodically. I bought my first MAT just 5-6 months ago and did not know anything about these change machines.

You learn as you go.

[Kitty]

MMM?? Cleaning the hopper? Would a not cleaned hooper have anything to do with a dual hopper changer having one hopper stop dropping coins occasionally. I have found one changer in particular that requires dumping the coins out, as the hopper is continuely getting jammed. Would cleaning rectify this problem? It has been happening more often these days.

[Anonymous]

Kitty,
my opinion, technically it could be, but probably not.

These hoppers have this little plastic wheel at the bottom of the hopper that rotates with the motor and goes with the chain. I'm told this plastic wheel is supposed to mix up the coins at the bottom to keep them from jamming the chain. They may work, but they don't last long. I replaced both of these plastic parts on both hoppers in March of this year. Already, one of them is broken. And that one jams the most.

[Lar Hylobates]

First thing to do when cleaning these Rowe hoppers is get your little step stool, a small flashlight, the brush, one rag and a liquid spray cleanser (one that doesn't leave a residue) I prefer a fast "flash" solvent.

First thing that somebody will tell you is not to use any solvent, liquid, etc. because it may hurt the "special" coating that the quarter slide on. If you hoppers are 15 years old like mine, don't worry about it...consider it putting off a painful visit to your distributor.

I sit down on the step stool, spray the brush with the cleanser and go to work on the hopper, using the flashlight to see. When I am through the chutes are clean as a whistle and perfectly dry, residue free.

Do this MORE often and the build up will not get to the point that you need a blade to remove it. In the meantime if there was ever a machine in the store that deserved preventive maintenance, I believe you have now selected the correct one.


Kitty, If the hopper is actually jamming and does no longer turn, cleaning the hopper will probably not fix your problem. If the hopper is turned off due to it "stalling" as in not dropping quarters, they are probably falling off a dirty chute before reaching their intended destination...cleaning may solve this problem

Good luck to all the paesants.

[anonymous]

What kind of solvent do you use?

[Westlake]

I have Rowe BC 1200’s and whenever I notice that the fill time takes longer then it should I give them a good cleaning. I need to do this about every 3 to 4 months. I empty the hoppers and remove them from the machine. I then remove the 8 screws from the right side, 4 from the left and 2 from the bottom. Slide the entire coin sorting mechanism out and remove it from the hopper casing. I use a toothbrush, a rag and some non-abrasive cleaner I got from the 99-cent store to clean the tracks and the chain. Takes me about 30 to 40 minutes to clean both hoppers. Oh, helps to have an electric screwdriver

[Lar Hylobates]

Any solvent that dries "flat"...no oily residue.

I'm currently using VM&P, Naphtha, but commonly use anything that is similar in nature and laying around, even alcohol would work.