Unimac

[BWJR]

Machine starts then goes through the pre-wash and then stops. I come in and see the dial stopped just before the wash cycle begins and coins can not be dropped in mech. this happens about once every two months. They are very busy machines and i get at least 10-15 turns on the week ends. Only one seems to do this and the other one never does it. How do i correct the problem? I have been dealing with this for 9 years. I know a little bit about the door mech problem and I've been switching coils and duct taping to prevent moisture from getting in the mech for years. Is there a better and more final solution?

Thanks,

BWJR

[TTLES]

What temperature is the selector set at ? Do you have a hot water valve problem ?

[Anonymous]

Door lock upgrade to single coil you can buy for $110 but this sounds like a water valve problem.

[BWJR]

Are you saying the hw valve is not opening up and the machine stops? If so how do I verify that and what kit do I use to repair the problem. I am not sure if its happening on cold or not next time I'll check, but it could happen on the other three.

Please give me more info.

Thanks,

BWJR

[TTLES]

Just a guess,but we have seen this before. First you need to get a better handle on what the malfunction is.......easier said then done on an intermittant problem.......My guess is that the coil on the hot water valve may me "breaking down" intermittantly, I would change all the diaphragms and the coils. Your machine is a pressure fill, timer advance design....meaning that it will "stick in the cycle", if the pressure switch does not recognize a full tub of water. Also check the drain valve, after a while the sealing ring of the valve does not seal well to the ball....it could be nicked or torn. When the machine "gets stuck", what is happening ? Is the machine trying to fill and water just running through ? Is it supposed to be filling and not doing so? (No water comming in ) What temperature setting ? What does the attendant do to get the clothes out and at what part of the cycle ? Hope this helps....Tony

[BWJR]

Tony,

Here is the problem. I am partially attendend and it has never happened when someone is there. I believe there are two size diaphrams for the valves. Which one do I change? I believe the drain valve is ok because the machine gets a lot of use and the tub never seems to have a problem filling. When I come in the machine is empty which means that the customer had no problem getting the clothes out. Hope this is enough info to help me solve the problem.

Thanks,

BWJR

[TTLES]

When you come in , you find the machine cycle indicator at the wash position ??? Is the power on or off ? I'm not sure I under stand how the customer is removing the clothes. Do you need to turn the power on when you put the machine back in service ? If there was a power failure, the door would unlock in about a minute, but then power would have to be re-established for the timer to rapid advance. If you are finding the timer still at the wash cycle, I would question the integrity of the timer delay unit.
.....Back to the water valve , if you have the single 4 coil valve, change all four diaphragms ( 2- 13mm & 2-10 mm)...I would change all four coils. Although I would concentrate on the hot water side. I still lean toward a defective coil. I have seen this scenerio many times. The coil will function properly for 10 or more cycles, then crap out. When it cools down, it will work again. However this would not cause the machine to unlock the door. The machine would keep running, " waiting for water." Let me know how you make out, Tony

[Anonymous]

Change the whole valve F730455 $98.85 at Down n Dirty.
1-888-DND-CLUB. It may be cheaper then buying all the diagraphms and coils seperate.




Tell them you saw their Phone Number on Coinwash.com

[BWJR]

When I come in the dial is at the end of the pre-wash cycle, power is on, and the clothes have been removed. I look into getting a complete valve from down and dirty.

Thanks,

BWJR

[MSKLAUNDRY.]

While I agree with the no water condition problem there seems to be something more involved here, something you are not telling us perhaps.

Can you clarify what happens when you come in? Is the door unlocked? What do you do to get it ready for a new cycle, close the door (machine advances by it self), or do you advance the timer with the advance button?
There is only one spot on the timer where the door is opened and that is after the spin/tumble at the end. If the door is opening at the wash there can only be a few reasons for it. Mechanical failure of door lock parts, timer contacts 12b, delay relay or a wire in the door release shorting to L1.
I would first try removing the brown wire from the delay unit to timer 12b and run the washer without it and see if you have anymore issues if not then that maybe your problem.

Since it only happens sometimes it is going to be a real pain to figure out.

[BWJR]

When I come in the cycle shows that the pre- wash is ended, but the water does not come in for the wash cycle. The dial stops and I can only assume that the customer can open the door and get their clothes out, because the washer is empty. I then advance it manually with the advance button and the machine will run fine for days , weeks, or even months, without any incidents. If there is any other info that you need, let me know.
This brown wire goes from the timer to the small circut board, correct? Also can it run that way on an on-going basis, without any problems? How will I know that this is the problem, and then how can i correct the problem?

Thanks,

BWJR

[Duane]

I am not an expert, but think about this.

Maybe there are never any clothes in the washer. What if a customer runs a cycle then removes their clothes. When they close the door the washer automatically starts another cycle but stops after the prewash. This is where you come in.

That is probably why you don't get too many customer complaints and no one can put their clothes in because it is in mid cycle so they just go to the next washer.

Does it make sense?

[MSKLAUNDRY.]

The reason I believe that is has something to do with the delay relay is that there should be no reason for the door to be opened in the end of the prewash. The only path to the door release solonoid is through the timer terminal 12 b or through the delay relay, thats it!!

If the door is opened and there is power to the washer you shouldn't have to manually advance anything to get it back to the start as that should be done automaticly through the door lock switch, door lock relay board and then to the timer motor, provided the wires are not disconnected, of course.
By removing the brown wire that goes to the timer terminal 12 b you eliminate the posiblity of the delay relay as the reason for causing the problem. Note though that you in the event of power failure that the washer will no longer open the door by itself.

[BWJR]

Marc,

So diconnecting 12b is a tempory fix. How do I repair it properly and going forward?

Thanks,

BWJR

[BWJR]

Marc,

I know what Duane is saying is possible, but is it likely?

If I disconnect 12b it will run based on what you said, but how do I fix it for good and stop the problem.

Thanks,

BWJR

[MSKLAUNDRY.]

If a customer starts a wash he/she cannot open the door unless they turn the power off to the washer and wait the delay time. Then when you turned on the power to the washer the timer would automaticly return to the start position and wait be started again.

I am not sure what he is talking about.

Removing one of the brown wires of the delay relay would help to isolate this as the cause for the problem.
Since nobody is there when this happens it is going to be difficult to figure out what is going on but this should point you in the right direction.

[MSKLAUNDRY.]

It is possible for a cycle to be started twice but not likely and even less likely that that cycle would stop at the end of the prewash.

[Duane]

Marc,

That is what I am talking about. Since there is never any clothes in the washer and the door is locked that must mean the washer started itself. Either after a completed cycle when the door was closed after the clothes were removed, or sporaticaly just start up anytime.

Like I said, I am no expert, but this appears to be the logical answer to why there were not any clothes in the washer.

[BWJR]

Marc,

I took the brown wire off B12, and the washer ran three times fine. Now finding out if that works could take a month or so, based on the history of the problem. Also when I shut the power off with this brown wire off, the door will not open at all. When I turn the power back on the washer will continue in the cycle. With the brown wire on when I shut the power off, I can get the door open after a short wait. I then have to manually advance the cycle, because the washer will not continue in the cycle with the wire on like it does with the brown wire off. If this is the problem, how do I fix it for good and what part needs to be replaced.

Please respond
Thanks Marc,

BWJR

[MSKLAUNDRY.]

Sorry for not responding as fast as I normaly do but I was in the black out. Got lights back at 9 am this morning but didn't get cable till now 6 pm. Glad I came back from Vegas early or I might be stranded somewhere right now!!!

With the brown wire off, the washer is doing exactly what it is surpose to do. When you shut power off to the washer and then reapply power it will not open the door and thus not advance the timer. Yes, it will take time to tell if the problem is gone!!! What we have done is isolated the two possible paths to the door unlock solonoid. If the problem goes away then we know where the problem route is. Time will tell.

[BWJR]

Marc,

Make a mental note of this, since it may take a while for me to find out what the problem is, but if the machine does work now, what part do I replace?

Thanks,

BWJR

[MSKLAUNDRY.]

Delay relay or something before it.

We will take it from there when the time comes!!!!!!
That is one of the problems with intermitant problems, they take time to figure out. Onless you what to just start swapping stuff around?

[BWJR]

No, I am willing to wait it out as long as it won't hurt the machine.
Swapping parts is a very bad habit and can cause more problems.
I'll be patient and keep you informed.

Thanks Marc,

BWJR

[BWJR]

Marc,

I think it took about 3 weeks, but the 50# Unimac did it again. I came in and the dial was on the end of the pre-wash, the selection key was on hot and the machine was open and empty. I disconnected the 12b wire as you suggested 3 weeks ago, so I guess this means my hot water valve is the problem if I am not mistaking. Should I replace the whole valve or just the diaphram kit. If so what size do i need to replace the hot water kit.

Thanks,

BWJR

[Anonymous]

Spend a $100 bucks and change the whole valve.

[MSKLAUNDRY.]

Why would you want to change the hot valve or its components. If the door has opened in mid cycle it is because something unlocked it not because of a lack of water. By eliminating the delay relay wire from the timer at 12b you have removed the delay relay from the circuit thus allowing only the timer to unlock the door. Even if the customer had shut the power to the washer it would not open the door after 60 seconds because you removed the delay relay from the circuit. The timer is the only path left and that shouldn't open the door until step # 56 in the timer sequence.

So where does this leave you right now you ask?

I believe it is the timer as there really isn't any other path going to the unlock coil. It sounds like at step # 11 in the timer sequence the timer is activating the "12b" side thus unlocking the door.

What you should have done is open the front panel and remove the slide cover plate and close the washer door then move the door lock slide lever back into the locked position. If the washer energizes the unlock solenoid as soon as you do that the you know that the timer is the problem, but it's probably too late now as you have probably manually advanced the timer already.

I would go with the timer.

Let us know how you make out.

[Anonymous]

Are you sure the door locks at the begining. The coil may work but your push button on the handle may be worn. Make sure the machine locks first.

[BWJR]

What do you mean that the button on the handle may be worn? If it is, how do I verify that, and why is the timer stopping at the end of the pre-wash cycle? What sequence is happening? I can see I am getting close to solving a 8 yr. old problem, I just need a little more information.

BWJR

[MSKLAUNDRY.]

Start machine, see if you can open the door if you can't then everything is OK. Actually the push button is not what wears out but rather it is the slide plate that goes flat and allows the door to be opened in mid cycle.

[MSKLAUNDRY.]

If you have another 50 lbs washer why don't you just switch out the components tray or the timer and see if the problems moves to the other machine. The tray is easy to move but then we will be back to where we are now, that is narrowing the problem down. If you don't want to spend the money on the timer just to verify that is the problem then just swap timers with any other Unimac.

[Anonymous]

I have had the push rod on the door handle wear down and this caused the machine to be able to unlock. On older push rods they were brass at the tip and it can wear down.

[BWJR]

I will keep you informed each step of the way. I appreciate the input.

Thanks,

BWJR

[Andy]

I would like to add that i have witnessed a similar problem with one of my SQ 50# washer. My attendant said she loaded the clothes into the washer closed the door inserted the coins and the machine started like normal. The door locked and the tab preventing coins from being inserted operated as normal. The machine will run as normal (water fill included) for anywhere from 10 seconds to what appears to be the entire prewash stage. The machine would then stop just as if you would expect that it would if the timer stopped functioning. On the four or so occasions I have heard about this the attendant turned the power off to the machine to remove the clothes. They then turned the power back on to the machine after removing the clothes. The timer does not always advance to the start after powering back on-explaining the timer status with power-on door open scenario.

I found this machine to be in the prewash stage once (marked out of order by an attendant) and closed the drum door and manually moved the locking pin to the locked position-the machine started to function where it left off. I turned around three times said a short prayer and have only seen this problem once since. All joking aside I do think I have the same problem and because it occurs only once every few weeks I havn't given it much thought.

[BWJR]

What you described is exactly what happens to me. I don't understand why it happens so infrequently. the machine runs about 150-200 times without a problem and then it acks up.
I wonder if this puts a different lite on the situation. Marc says its the timer.

BWJR

[BWJR]

Andy / Marc

How old is your 50#'er and how long has this been happening. Is you machine set up to by-pass the pre wash cycle? Come to think of it my 50#"er was set up originally to by-pass the pre wash cycle with just a short spray of water, a pause, and then go right to the wash cycle, this is something I failed to tell you Marc in our prior discussions. Maybe i need to re-set the wire that controls that. I do I go back to the proper way?

Thanks, BWJR

[MSKLAUNDRY.]

It shouldn't make a difference if you have it skipping the prewash so as long as the wires are not installed in the wrong places. The only wire that should be going from terminal #1 of the door lock assy terminal block is wire # 20 and that should go to terminal 12b of the timer and there shouldn't be any other wire attached to terminal #12b at the timer because you removed the brown wire of the delay relay. If the door opens at the start of the wash once in a while then you either have a wire shorting to a hot line and 12b or the timer is malfunctioning at that point. I would recheck the wires from 12b to the coil, even removing the assy and check the wires to/from the lock assy.

Don't know what else to tell you?

Either that or you need to call Sylvia Brown and find out which spirit is haunting you, and see if she can get them to go away. LOL

[BWJR]

Marc,

It happened again today. Can i by-pass a switch in the door lock so that it won't lock but the timer thinks that it did, just to check to see if that is the problem? Do you think that is advisible and can it be done?

BWJR

[MSKLAUNDRY.]

Sorry but no you can't, because the way the lock circuit works if you bypass the switch the unlock coil energizes in the ready state.

Instead of playing with it at this point why not just replace timer or swap it with another unimac to see?

Sounds to me like this tread is getting too long with little action taking place at this point.

[BWJR]

I went this morning and checked it out. I found that the small coil (locking coil) was not pulling up for the bar to slide across and lock the door. I changed the coil since I didn't have a timer and
Sunday is a busy day. I ran the machine 3 or 4 times and it now works fine. Which means I could be back where I started or disconnecting the 12b wire could have solved the problem, but this coil just went bad and caused a similar problem. I understand that it still could be the timer, but if I am not mistaken this could throw a different light on the sutuation which will only be known by waiting.

BWJR

BWJR

[MSKLAUNDRY.]

True on all accounts

[BWJR]

I will keep you informed

BWJR

[BWJR]

I think its been about 10 days since I changed the small coil. I have had not problems to this date. I will keep you informed.

Thanks,

BWJR

[BWJR]

Marc,

It's been 15 days since i have had a problem. I believe the problem was in the door lock mech. I will continue to leave the 12b wire off and hope that we don't have a power failure.

Thanks,

BWJR

[MSKLAUNDRY.]

Sounds like a plan!!!

[Anonymous]

any update

[BWJR]

One of the worst designs on the market. The unimac door mech.
I have two 50'ers 10 years old with nothing but trouble for ten years. This past week end it happened again on both machines On one it stopped after the pre wash, and on the other it ran the entire cycle and then wouldn't stop or open after the cycle was done. It continued to cycle. In both cases it is the door mech. I opened it up, cleaned and sprayed the mech of which one had two brand new coils, sprayed them both with sylcone to include the slide bar and put them back in service. You can be assured it will happen again soon or maybe not. That's been the history of these two machines for ten years. Neve again buy a Unimac. It's a piece of Junk and very unreliable.


BWJR

[TTLES]

End your misery and install the door lock upgrade. It wii solve all the problems with this lock.

[BWJR]

I spoke with two different people from Unimac and both told me that my particular model and year with the problem that I have would not be solved by the upgrade.

[Tom Ala.]

The up grade is better than the old locks but still are not dependable I am as money allows junking all of the unimac front loaders because I spend half of my repair time on a hand full of junk. Tom

[BWJR]

Tom,

I couldn't agree with you more. I would like to know if anyone has had succcess with this Unimac model (50 # front loaders).

BWJR

[Anonymous]

I have 10 of them with no problems.

[MSKLAUNDRY.]

I have customers with ongoing door lock issues and then there are the ones that never have a problem, go figure!!!

[Westlake]

I have seen this same issue on my unimac’s, although I assume my attendant cycles the power to get the customers clothing out. Most of the time when the attendant turns the power back on the timer advances back to start and the machine runs fine for another few months. Then again sometimes it won’t advance and I need to do it manually. Either way the problem is so intermittent (problem occurs once every few months) that I just reset and move along.

Personally I won’t spend much time or money to fix this problem.

[TTLES]

We have NEVER had a reoccuring problem after the door lock upgrade was performed. .....I would estimate approximately 40 units. (change to pin type lock, new pc board, and relay.)

[Westlake]

What is the cost for this upgrade?

[BWJR]

I am curious also in the cost of the upgrade, and how easy is the installation?

Thanks,

BWJR

[MSKLAUNDRY.]

Don't know the exact cost, but can't imagine why anyone would want to change to it as I have problems with the new one also.
It is most likely close to 200 buck + or - a little. Sorry never ordered a upgrade kit in the past.

[MSKLAUNDRY.]

I have found that most if not all problems with the old lock assembly have to do with mis-adjustment of the metal parts within the lock assembly or worn parts. It is not just about changing coils but about making sure all the other parts are up to par. I have had many customers who state they change coils frequently and then I go and look at it and the lock assembly in so out of adjustment that it is no wonder they have so many problems.