Another Standard Changer problem

[BWJR]

Marc,

Is it possible for a Standard Changer 500 system to reject more bills when the temp. goes above 90'? Or should i say why does my changer reject more bills when it goes above 90'. Standard replaced something in the unit about 3 weeks ago, but it only improved the situation, it did not correct it totally. Do you have a suggestion other than Air cond. my store?

Thanks,

BWJR

[MSKLAUNDRY.]

Yes, I do. You will need a test card. And you will have to adjust some pots on the side of the validator if I remember correctly.

If you have a wide temp difference between different times of the year then you will need to recal when the temp changes.

This is why I dislike Standard. This reminds me of a interesting situation I had years back with Herb Jackson of Standard. When I have time I'll post the whole story in this forum. Its a long story.

[MSKLAUNDRY.]

If you have the installation / service manual look on page 63 for instructions on how to cal. (Page 63 in my book)

You will need a new balance card!!!!

[Ken]

Standard changer no longer use the pots to adjest for any update model.(all new system 500,500E,600)If you changer take new bills,you have a update model.
The changer do require a little card to adjest,call Standar,they will send you 1,2 new cards and info .
You can try to adjest the secority level,make a little lower,I think the code is 510 for system 500,I don't have my manul with me at this time.You will need to set $5 and $10 different level, otherwise,the changer may miss id the bill.If you set the $5 too low,it will take $2 bill and pay out 20 quarters.:-)
Try to clean the bill accepter too,the temputer should not effect the newer changer too much ,the old system 500 was bad news when summer.
We all see pop machines outside with bill accepter,they work but none of them use Standard accepter,most vending machines use Mars and Coinco.I have both,most my vending machines, changers, video game have Coinco.
I will stay away from Maki, Ardac bill accepters,they are junk.If the go bad,don't even have them fixed.

[MSKLAUNDRY.]

I try not to play with Standard stuff as you can see. I am a ROWE man.

I agree Mars or Coinco is the way to go!!

[Fred50]

Marc,


Would you avoid the Standard Bill to Bill Changers for the same reason?

If so, can you recommend another one?

Thanks!

[MSKLAUNDRY.]

My dealings with Standard equipment is not very favorable and thus would personally stay away from it.

I would go with American for a bill to bill changer.

[BWJR]

I should have mentioned this, but yes I have calibrated with the cards and the hand held wand shows good calibration. I have also set my $1.00 bills down to the lowest security level and still when its real hot the rejection level goes way up. Any other suggestions. I am definetly leaning towards the mars coversion kit. Some one did say they had a problem with the mars and i asked him to let me know the details. Does anyone remember?

BWJR

[Ken]

A new Mars or Coinco bill accepters cost $250 used $150.
If you have problem with any of them ,you can buy a new one with 1 years warranty or have them repair cheap.
I had 2 Standard bill accepters repaired last month,cost about $450,why don't you try one American Changer cost about $1000.You will love it .I wopuld buy a new one first instead of spend $500 to update.
I bought my first American Changer AC 1002 in 94,I had bill accepter rebuilt once and update once,still have the same cpu and hopper,American changer will sell you rebuilt bill accepter for $150,don't ever buy Standard EC model,Standard made those after American was in the market,EC is a good looking machine but Standard need to work out the bugs before even sell them!I bought 3 in 99,only one in service at this time,5 out of 6 hoppers are dead.I like the system 500,600's hopper but EC hopper is junk.

[BWJR]

Ken,

I have had an American Changer for about nine years, and yes they are great. I paid about $950.00 for one that holds $700.00. My Standard holds $1600.00, but like you said its a constant problem. I want to buy the mars conversion kit, but someone posted problems with the Mars unit. Does American Changer Corp sell a conversion Kit for the Standard Cabinet. The Standard Cabinet is excellent, its what's inside that leaves much to be desired.

BWJR

[Ken]

The cab is one of best part for Standard Changer.
American doesn't sell any kit to convert Standard,most converters are after market.I saw a lot Mars kit for Rowe's changer,not Standard.
Most kit come with a bill accepter,bracket to put accepter in,CPU,so the hppoer and bill accepter can interface.The bill accepter is made by large company like Mars,Coinco.
Aftermarket CPU is what you should look into.I don't have any Standard with aftermarket kit but I am doing my homework right now.

[Anonymous]

Mars Kit For Standard

http://www.capitalvending.com/kits/standard_changer_makers_kit.html

Tell them you saw their link on Coinwash.com

4 years running and never a problem with my Mars.

[BWJR]

Does American Changer sell these conversion kits.

[Anonymous]

No, why not just buy it from capital vending? Did you have trouble with them?

[Ken]

The price is very good,I will call them after the clean 03.The only down side is no audit ,only counter .
I can always find unhappy Standard custemer want to sell their changer in my area.I like Standard's cab,I asked American changer to build a better cab,I am going to take a look in clean 03.

[Anonymous]

You can get a Hamilton with a Mars validator and their cabinets are very tough.


Call capital I think they have a audit feature you can purchase seperate.

[buddy]

Last few days my Standard 500 all of a sudden started to hold bills randomly. Couple times a day a customer would put $5 or $20 and no change would come out but the machine continues to work. When I open the changer the display says "bill held".

Any ideas?

Thanks

[MSKLAUNDRY.]

The validator tried to reject and remove the bill back to the customer 32 tries but could not, so it took the bill and stacked it but since it didn't validate it didn't dispense. All it did it clear the potential jam.

Clean validator rollors, etc...

[buddy]

The strange thing is it did not even try to reject the bill. It just took it and held it. It has happened 4-5 times in last 3-4 days.

I opened up the validator last week, took out the board and put it back again. Since then this problem has started. May be it needs re-calibration?. I will call their Tech Support.

[BWJR]

Buddy

On a 500 system a bill held is that the software is telling you that there is something wrong with the bill, counterfeit or whatever.
Does your machine go down? If it does you have an automatic recovery system that will bring you system back up after a certain amount of time, which you can program yourself in the software. Five, ten, fifteen minutes, etc, whatever you decide. If you have another brand of changer in your laundry and you can isolate the held bill, try it in another changer. Maybe its counterfeit and the standard changer did its job. If its not counterfeit try setting your security level down one.

Good Luck,

BWJR

[buddy]

BWJR,

I don't think it is Security Level settings because bills are not counterfeit. If I put the same bill again, it accepts it and dispnses the change. It does not go out of service at all. It is very intermittent. Out of 50 times may be once or twice it will just accept the bill, not dispense any change and continues on. When I open up the machine it will have message "Bill Held".

[k kious]

There are a couple different issues on this post that I would like to help shed some light on.

The Bill Held error means the acceptor failed in trying to reject a bill but instead stacked the bill without dispensing coins. Instead of going out of service (with a jammed bill) the acceptor tries to clear the bill path by running the motor backwards and forwards while looking for bill movement. This event ends when either the bill is rejected, jammed in the acceptor (Acceptor Error) or stacked in the stacker (Bill Held). Bill Helds are usually a sign that the rollers need to be cleaned or replace.

EC Hoppers. It is true that the original EC hoppers were not up to the same reliability standards as the System 500/600 hoppers. Two areas where we made significant improvements were going to a stronger motor and reinforcing the drive gear. Both of these improvements were in production before February 2002 and have made the EC hopper extremley reliable.

Mars Acceptors. We do offer the Mars acceptor as an optional upgrade for our EC line of Changers.

Kris

[Ken]

WOW! Standard changer improve their EC hopper since 2002,the changer was produced since 98 or 99 but cost me money to update to new gear,moter.....When I called Standard Tech suppor in 2000,they always told me I am the only one have problems.I bought my 3 EC models after Clean 99,I was told they just like System 500 hopper ,they were not working right since day one,it took Standard 2,3 years to improve their hopper?why don't you guys test your mechines before put them in the market.
All my American changer's hoppers still work after 8,9 years,1 out of 6 Standard EC hopper is running in my store at this time,I bought them 99 or early 2000.
I am glad K Kious answer our questions honestly about their changers.

[BWJR]

There is a reason why standard went to a mars Validator in there conversion kits. Too many complaints and losing Market share to American might be some of the answers.

BWJR

[Ken]

Standard only use Mars or Coinco in the EC model, the model doesn't have bad bill accepter(because Standard didn't make them) but has bad CPU and hopper design,Standard did imporve them but I won't trust them again.
If you have System 500 or 600 SC model,you will need to use aftermarket kit from captional vending in order to use Coinco or Mars..I don't think Standard suppor a kit convert SC bill accepter to Mars or Coinco.
Standard has better exchange policy right now,if the new changer is not working the first few months,you can get exchange parts,they start doing that since 2002.
When I bought my 4 Standard changers in 99,I had to send bad parts in for repair and wait for them to come back.
I even had parts back from the service dept in IN(not warranty repair),they won't work when I received,sent them back,charge me more again!
American has been doing exchange for their customers since day one,fast and easy.When you send in a Coinco bill accepter,you know how much will cost you,when send bill accepter to Standard,you need a open check book and hope it work when you receive it.
Most car companies,washer ,dryers companies will recall their bad model for free,Standard will have new and improve model for a fee.

[BWJR]

Believe it or not they still control about 60% of the Market Share. i don't know how they do it. Their product is constantly breaking down. They are well constructed, but their software is very fragile.

BWJR

[Rondo]

I have absolotuly have no idea what you guys are talking about. I've used Standards for 11 years and have no problems with them. They control 60% for some reason, dont you think.

[Anonymous]

Where did u get that figure of 60%?

[BWJR]

Rondo,

Do you have a 500 or a 600 series?

BWJR

[Rondo]

I have an updated 500 and a 600 series. I have to say that the updated 500 accepts bills much better. The 600 has a liitle trouble with $5 bills.

[BWJR]

Are you saying you have no problems with either? I have a 500 and it needs to be serviced 2 or 3 times a year. About $300.00 in service charges per year. I have owned an American Changer since 1995 an I have spent a total of $200.00 since I've owned it. The other thing is, the Standard goes down with a jammed bill or some other thing, you name it, and the American never goes down.

BWJR

[Ken]

I had old tube Standard changer,I have System 500,500E, 600, 200,EC model right now(not all in service),I even have a old Standard Coin counter in my coin counter collection,that one is just my toy.
The system 600 and EC are the one really make me mad since they are only 2-3 years old.After I bought my first American Changer,I told myself,never buy a Standard again. I spoke to
K Kious in Clean 99,he is a really nice person,so I decided to give Standard a try again, I bought 4 more,what a bad news!Both my system 500,600 have problem with $5 bill,if I lower the security level,it will work ok but it will miss id $2 as $5 bill.I am going to clean 03 then decide what to do with my Standard changers.

[BWJR]

Rondo,

This is what I'am saying. Ken feels the same as me with Standard. Their machines are expensive and their up-keep with repairs are ridiculas. I've never owned anything else other than Standard or American and when you compare the two. The most cost effective one is the American. Hands Down! Maybe Ken and I are the only ones with bad luck when it comes to the Standard Change Co.

BWJR

[Anonymous]

I hate standard. Always need repairs.

[Rondo]

That's all I'm saying that my standards work very well. I keep an open mind though and the next time I need a new changer I will weigh everything and make my decission on what seems the best for me . I am listening to you guys. I may even consider the Mars kit if anything goes wrong with my acceptors.

Wouldn't it be appropriate to start another thread on the other changers too? I know that their having trouble with the other(coimpany) changers too, I'd like to keep everything fair and balanced.

[CharlieS]

I'm with Rondo.

I have 5 Standard changers, all running the 600 series acceptor. The only problem I have had, in 3 years, on any machine is a bill stacker, which had a bad motor. The unit was over 10 years old (I had upgraded the acceptor), and Standard charged me about $70 to fix it.

On average, these acceptors will each run about $1200 to $1500 a week in change.

I do clean the acceptor (blow out the acceptor with air in a can, clean the lenses with a soft cloth), about once a month. I also find that I will occasionally have small problems with the hopper feed unless I open the door and blow out the gear area with pressurized air, again about once a month. Since I started doing this, I have had very few problems.

On the other hand, my American changer (2005) routinely fails to dispense the correct number of quarters, and recently did a complete hopper dump. My standard has never done that.

Charlie

[BWJR]

Charlie,

Did you contact American Changer in regards to the problem?
In the past they have been very helpful, and i have never had a problem with their responsiveness to any problem as infrequent as it has been? Let me know?

BWJR

[Ken]

I sent the Standard EC hoppers for service after I spoke to Standard service depo Kirs Kious in the Clean 03 and email.
I received the hoppers a few weeks ago,they work well,they finally work out the bugs on those EC hoppers.Just a update and thanks for Kris Kious's help.

[Kitty]

We will have to change the initial thread title to Standard comes through.......I have always had good service and turn around from Standard. The service in Indianapolis has always been great! I cannot remember the gentleman who had walked me through the several issues I have had in nine years. But he is to be commended with his patience with dealing with a woman explaining the components to being the thingamigers, and the watchamacallits and then being able to help me fix my problems all with an excellent attitude! During the Clean Show I enjoyed meeting the Standard Change execs. After meeting them, I'd make a purchase with them simply because of their cool attitudes. Even though Jim was a little stuffy, his guys keep him in the groove enough not to cloud any judgement I may have in the future :)

Nice to hear you got it all resolved Ken.

[William]

I have 4 Standard Changers with various configurations and I have not had what I consider to be excessive problems.

[CharlieS]

Yes, I did contact American about the problems I was having. The tech support guys made my feel like they were doing me a favor to bother to talk with me, and they didn't resolve the issues. Then they charged me $25 for a copy of the manual, which was worth about $5 at most. Needless to say, the experience left me with a bad taste in my mouth for American.

Charlie

[Kitty]

You guys kill me.............

Standard's System 500 & 500-E acceptors are almost 20-year old technology. I have a 1979 Olds Cutlass that requires me to give it an expensive tune-up every 15,000 miles, and yet my 1998 Chevy Blazer can go 100,000 miles without a sparkplug change. Do I call GM and complain that the car they sold me in 1979 is a piece of #%*&??? It keeps requiring more parts, more preventative maintenance and more money for me to operate it. What's up with that?

It's the same thing with all the old changers. The System 500 was designed in 1986. You're comparing the technology of 1986 to today's technology. Personally - with all the technology advances in circuitry and software, I'm surprised Standard (and Hamilton and Rowe) can continue to support these models in today's operating conditions. Do you honestly expect your Coinco and Mars Validators to be operating flawlessly in 15 years?

Yes - you paid more for your Standard Changer than you did for your American. But it sounds like you have depreciated the cost over a much longer period of time. Which shows that the Standard has proven to be a good investment.

Standard's newer System 600 acceptor does have its moments of being a little fickle. All acceptors do. But ask any Laundry Owner that has been "strung" which machine he prefers - he'll take the Standard System 600! It's the workhorse of the industry! You guys need to put it in the proper perspective. Don't compare a 2 year old changer with a 15 year old changer!

[Ken]

Most companies still in business are ok .If you are in this biz for a while,you will knew a few bad one went under or got out the laundry market.It depent on how you like the mechines to run and how much luck do you have.
I bought 4 new Standard changers in 1999-2000,SC94 system 600, EC200,2 EC400,I had problem in all 4 since day one,K Kious from Standard changer took care most of the problems,I am happy my Standard changers are working.
I don't have problems with American Changer,service,tech suppor are ok.
Coinco is the bill accepter get stug,Standard EC use the same accepter, you can also put Mars or Cashco in Standard changer.My Standard system 500 got stug 7,8 years ago too.I spoke to my changer serviceman, he believe if you have changer,people will try the find the way to get money out.
American Changer already has a kit to fix it,I order one,it is on the way.
You can buy a new Mars for American Changer too.
The reason people like Coinco or Mars is the cost and they work,they may not last 15 years but you can have rebuilt every 5 years or buy a new one every 5 years.My changer serviceman suggest me to buy a new Standard stacker,so check the price ,$500 for a new stacker!just bought a new Dodage van,do I like Dodge,no !but they are cheap and good for service van for 5 years ,if I am lucky,it may last 10 years.
Buying mechines just like buy a car,some people like GM,some people like others.The happy or unhappy Standard changer owner just talk about their story.I am glad all my Standard and American Changers are working right now.

[Anonymous]

Instead of buying a stacker why not convert to a mars for about the same price?

[Ken]

I was thinking about the same idea,I may try one.