Equipment Life Expectancy

[stream]

I am new here, and seriously considering purchasing an existing mat. I am very early in the process, however I think things may move quickly as I have located a potential mat.

The following questions are only a small part of my learnig/due diligence. I am aware of many other things to evaluate, etc. before making the deal. This forum is a wealth of information - a big thanks in advance to all who contribute to make it such.

With regard to the existing equipment, it has a mix of the following:

Washers:
Wasco W74,75,124 & 184
Maytag 30 & 50 lber's

Dryers:
Wasco Dry 30's (singles & twins)
Maytag 30# twins

I do not know the age, maintenance, etc on any of the equipment at this time, but am looking into that as much as possible.

I spoke to a Wasco rep (at the HQ in NY, not a dealer) and among the things he told me were that the Gen 4 equip was at least 20 years old b/c they have now been through Gen 5 and are into Gen 6. I then spoke to a Maytag dealer & he said the Wasco Gen 4 was worn out crap, without even knowing anything more about it. This struck me as he just wants to sell me some equip.

So my questions are:

What is a REALISTIC expected life on Wasco Gen4 equipment? Is it worth re-building and if so, what is a rough estimate of cost to re-build a unit?

What about expected life on the WascoDry 30's ? Rebuildable? cost?

What about life/cost for the Maytag units?

I also realize that amount of use and maintenance can be a big variable on this, but what is reasonable & customary?

I still have to get much more info from the seller (we are meeting later this week for more "discovery"), but from the outside, this mat appears to be doing very well, and is priced at a premium. Therefore, any positive insite will be greatly appreciated as I go through this process.

Also, it appears most equipment dealers are not the most honest cats around. Any suggestions on how to get a realisitic condition assessment/valuation on the existing equipment?

[Kitty]

Life expectancy ranges greatly as one owner may lack in every aspect of equipment maintenance while another is highly efficient. A wasco gen 4 that has been maintained well can stay in service for many, many years. How long that is, you simply cannot determine, however, we currently have 16 year old gen 4's that we will be rebuilding very, very soon. These machines have had some serious use and have stood up well. A wasco is usually worth rebuilding, and yes many distributors are scum.

We currently have 20+ Maytag toploaders as well. The owner of the stores of which I am employed does all the maintanence and is highly efficient at trouble shooting and accurately repairing the machines.

We have always believed in maintaining and keeping the machines as long as possible before reinvesting.

I think the cost to rebuild the wascos are usually half the cost to purchase new, roughly 1800 for a 50lb I think? Rebuild means different things to different people, so you must know what you are needing.

[Anonymous]

There was an excellent review of NY laundry that rebuild equipment in the last couple of days, check it out. If you are going to rebuild older machines - Wasco's are the ones to do. When I bought my store there were some wasco's running that were 33 years old - that should tell you something.

[TTLES]

Your generation 4 wascomats are probably the best washers ever made by anyone. They will probably out live you. They can very easily and economicaly be made to look great. Tell your Maytag dealer that they don't have a Machine, past or present, that will give the service of the Gen 4. I just broke down and got rid of my 35 year old blue tops, that were all still running and still looking pretty good. I replaced them with 20 year old rebuilt Wascomat Gen 4's.

[stream]

So it sounds like the Gen 4's are good machines as long as they have not been badly neglected. There appears to be a fairly high volume of traffic at this location, so I would think that the machines have had decent service or they would all be broken ??

What about the dryers? Are they worth rebuilding if necessary? I may consider pulling a few of the single 30's & replacing with 50's since presently the dryers are all 30's. Comments??

As far as the Maytag dealer, he already has strike one in my mind - that comment was so blatently stupid. I guuess he thought he had a mullet and was trying to hook me good!

[Rondo]

The Maytag and WascoDrys are probably ADCs (just open them up or look on the backs they will have a ADC tag) They are very good dryers. On the WascoDrys make sure that they have DSI boxes instead of globar igniters. The owner should be able to tell you. No need to rebuild them, just maintain them.

Typical response from a Maytag dealer.

This board has already saved you money!

Strike out the Maytag guy unless you are interested in the Neptunes MAH21s

[mike]

Be careful that those Wascodry's are NOT Huebsch !!

If they are, they're finished (a maintenance nightmare)

[pete f]

The mullet here can not be hookeed, you have to net them...but you know that..

The appearance of the machines will be a big factor in the ability to maintain higher prices. I have 1 30 yr old Milnor that looks new, but would never think of having a store full of 30 yr old Milnors. Most of my washers are 1 to 3 years old. The real value of the machines in that mat is very low, call a used equipment dealer and ask how much they will pay for the stuff, you will be shocked. The mat is sold on how much cash it can produce and how long it may produce cash based on what the current condition is amoung other factors. A mat with new machines will sell for double or more that of a mat with old machines, both making the same net cash flow..

If the machines have been well taken care of they probably have some good life left in them. New machines are more energy saving, very little maintainance, and great tax advantages. I would plan for new machines in the future as you reinvest your profits. I plan on 10% of cash flow for reinvestment.
As for adding 50# dryers in place of 30's, it is not popular here but if you had a big w/d/f and large items then maybe.

[David]

Stream,

I bought a W184 (50lb) Wascomat last year. It was a rebuilt model. I could have bought a new machine, but since most of my other washers were Gen4's, I decided to stay with the same generation. Mostly because some parts are interchangeable with the other gen4's, and customer familiararity.

It's now one of the customer's favorite washers. They complain when it's down. (So far just clogged drain.)

Don't just consider age when choosing a washer.

[Todd]

Stream , the board has posted some great answers regarding whether to rebuilt or not. I am in agreement, the gen 4 is worth it if you have the time. One of your questions was cost so I figured I'd put together a list.

COSMETICS
One of the biggest things like Pete said is having the machines looking good. You can reface the wasco upper front panel for under $10 per machine. Pull the old brown instruction decal off, use a disc sander to strip the bad paint, then spray paint the upper front panel with a black gloss industrial rustoleum paint. You can get it at Lowe's for $5 a can. Mount the panel back on the machine and put your new decal on. You can also get a new sight glass and a black rotary kbob, and even a black pointer for a couple bucks each. Then tear out the namestrip and replace it with a new one.

You can repaint the front panels for practically nothing as well if you have the time, the space, and a good respirator. Use the same grade paint and choose your color. Hurricane Laundry sells stainless panels for around $75 for jrs, a little more for srs.

TUB BEARINGS
Of course before your machine looks good you should have it running good. The biggest thing will be the tub beaings. It is the most time consuming repair. The parts are cheap for the bearing kit though. You can do a jr. for $45 with SKF bearings. If you do bearings use skf . I know a guy who has done around 15 wasco bearings job, some with cheapo, most with skf, guess which ones he had to re-do.

MOTOR
If you need a motor rewound it is costly at around $300. The elmo motors though are great motors. You can have motor bearings done for around $75 installed. You can buy your own bearings and install them yourself at a savings if you feel comfortable. If you try them yourself ask Rondo about it. He gave a good post a while back about motor bearings.

DRAIN VALVE
You can rebuilt the drain valve on a wasco very economically. You will need a new motor and gear for around $15. New pins and springs are about $1 each. You can replace the boot and hose coming off the tub to the valve and the clamps for another $8 or so.

CONTROL TRAY
You can buy a new wasco gen 4 timer for $100-$120. That is the most expensive part in the tray, and also the biggest pain to replace. You can get new water valves, relays delay units, and pressure switches for around $15 each.

DOOR LOCKS
Very inexpensice to repair, very mechanical devices. Cherry switches and misc. springs cost a couple bucks each. The soleniod might run $30.

OUTLOOK
For most rebuilds you'd do for machines in a working location it will consist of cosmetic work, and repairing only what needs repaired at that moment, with the exception of replacing bad clamps at the drain area. A word to the wise though, don't try to replace rusted clamps that don't want to budge that are attached to the soapbox. I have done this a couple times thinking I'd replace them since I had the machine apart. Though good intentioned I ended up breaking the sprayer tubes. Let them rust off then replace. Also, get the top panel screws and put them in the soapbox, this will keep the outer drum from rusting. The gen4's are champs, good luck and have fun rebuilding, Todd

[Kitty]

Todd, your awesome! Good post!

[stream]

All great info gang. Thanks a bunch - really!

So this begs the question - how long will Gen4 really last with good care, rebuilds, etc? There must be an end at some point- when do you say uncle & replace?

Question 2 - let's hear who has the oldest running Gen4 machines still in service?

[Ken]

Gen3 and 4 are the best wahers ever made.
Gen 3 almost the same machine as Gen 4.
My oldest W183 were made in 1972,they are still popular .
I had some older W73,they had red button doors,the door was unsafe,a lot money to update so I put some Gen 4 in.
You can make a Gen4 look new for under $50,bearing job will cost you a little more,serviceman charge $400-500 in my area.
I saw a lot Wascodry was made by SQ/Hubsch,they have the old chain drive and real shaft system for 30 years.They may not the newest design but I like them.You can tech find info in the back of any machines.
Maytag make their own top loader,small front load,small dryer,
THEY DON'T MAKE ANY LARGE FRONT LOAD OR LARGE DRYERS!
ADC make their large dryers at this time,Dexter made dryers for Maytag once.
Primus make their large washer at this time.
Maytag had IPSO,UniMac(SQ bought Unimac later)made their large machines.You never know who make large machines for Maytage next time.
I like to buy machines have been in market for a while,never buy first year model or any unprove design.

[David]

Originally posted by stream

So this begs the question - how long will Gen4 really last with good care, rebuilds, etc? There must be an end at some point- when do you say uncle & replace?


Time from date of manufacture is irrelevent. I think that's what we've been trying to say. As long as you MAINTAIN the equipment, they can last 20-30 years easily. After that period of time, it's a matter of availablility and cost of replacement parts.

Originally posted by stream
Question 2 - let's hear who has the oldest running Gen4 machines still in service?

I still have two W73's turning every day. I have a rebuilt W74 right next to them, and my customers still use the W73's. Go figure!

[mike]

After reading Ken's post, I realise I should have specified Huebsch/Wascodry STACKS only, when "dissing" the machine for repairs.

[Ken]

Some Wascodry stock made by SQ/Hubsch,they are not good machines.
Some Wascodry stock made by ADC,ADC made them just for Wasco,it was hightest BTU stack ever made(105000Btu).I was going to buy some when Wasco closed out those model,they sold them cheap but I learned ADC stop made them too!I decide not to buy them.
I don't want to get stock with no parts or high parts price for the last year model.

[Rondo]

I have some of the WascoDry (ADC 105,000 BTU) dryers and the do a hell of a job. My only complaint was with the Idler arm and it's been updated to a newer better bearing. All the parts are off the other ADC models , so their is no problem getting them. besides that do you really need many parts for an ADC? :D