Slip n Fall Incidents

[Andy]

Well I hate to say it was inevitable but we just experienced our first "slip and Fall" and of course it was in the bathroom where I don't have video cameras to record events.

I received a call from the person claiming to have fallen last night, so I went down there to talk to her, to hear her account of the event.

I told her if she felt she needed medical attention that she should go sooner rather than later. The lady with her said yea if you wait (to see a doctor) until Monday morning you might be dead by then.

I will call my insurance carrier Monday morning to let them know.

Have any of you had to deal with this situation?

What should or shouldn't you do?

What was the final result of your situation?

Even if she was injured I don't think it was very serious thankfully. She was walking and talking and appeared to move normally. But it sure is a wake-up call.

[Rondo]

My slip and fall ended in a death. a old man and his wife came to one of my stores weekly with a person that was suppose to help them. He was about 80 years old and was taking out his basket and fell backwards off the curb and hit his head on a cement flower pot. latter he died. I called my insurance agent and they took care of everything. The Coroner called after the accident and said that the fall was not caused by the curb, that he had a stroke. To say that we were nervous would be a understatement. I think the Insurance Co. paid for ambulance and some of the hospital costs but I'm not 100% sure. Since the accident happen in the parking lot it could have been on the landlord. That something everybody should know if you or the landlord are responsible for accidents in your lot. It should be spelled out in your lease.

As for the out come I never heard anything else about it,but it sure worried me for a while.

[Kitty]

Andy,

A slip and fall incident can make you lose some sleep, however if you know what to ask and what to document you can save your self the lost sleep.

I am assuming you are unattended? We are attended and I have implemented certain procedures in the event of an accident. Any slip and fall or injury is to be documented on paper, all customers around during the incident are to be interviwed and they are to sign a statement, date, and offer the phone number and address if the insurance company will need it.

So many people today are simply out to see what they can get from business insurance companies. Lucky for us, these insurance companies are up on these scams and will not stand for some BS claim. The claims that are under a certain dollar amount are merely handled and claims are disbursed and you never hear about it again.

You said the woman fell in the bathroom? Was she hurt? If she wasn't and she may simply be trying to get some pain pills at your cost? your ins company will pay the small amount and nothing else should come of it. In order to sue you she has to have a case. Her decision not to go the the ER asap says she wasn't really hurt. Some people just try to push the envelope and see what you will do or say.

[Andy]

We are attended, however my attendant was not in the bathroom with her and the mat was otherwise empty (of customers). I am going to watch the video today to see if there is anything there.

The thing I found was strange is that when I asked for her address and then asked her to spell the road she got it wrong. It is a street I am very familiar with. I am not sure what it was that I thought was strange but I decided to ask her to spell it.

[Anonymous]

Andy,
suppose it wouldn't make for good PR to have camera's in the bathroom. And it's too bad our first reaction is to be skeptical of these situations. Blame the lawyers.

Our laundromat had a situation like this about 7 years ago, when my in-laws owned it. They completely distanced themselves from the situation and let the insurance co. handle the whole thing. Not sure how much the ins company had to cough, but i know that their rates didn't go up and they weren't forced to add any signage or anything. I think their philosophy at the time was "anything you can say to the victim, can come back to hurt you".

[Anonymous]

SuperMe,

Cameras in the bathroom?? I know you're only joking....

Not only is it bad PR, but I believe it's against the law. Something to do with the whole "invasion of privacy" thing. What's the world coming to??

[Anonymous]

The cameras in the bathroom are not illegal. My sons elementary school had some problems with kids in the bathrooms, so they installed cameras - they just aim away from the toilet area. No one has any problems with them and they cut down the problems.

[Kitty]

My husband was a PI for years and his main cases were insurance claims. So, many people try to screw the system, but very few get away with it, especially today. Many people claim injuries and very few can actually carry the feigned injury out successfully to "make" any money. We had a few claims here and there, one lady told us she cut her finger on the dryer. Boo hoo, and she was stating it could become infected, whaw....anyway. She was simply "fishing" to see where we would go with it. Always in any case that you have someone claim injury, call your agent. Give the injured your agents number and you'll probably never hear another word from the "injured" party. They simply want quick cash.......

[JeffLange]

Well i would assume at your sons school they have stalls which give the kids privacy. Most bathrooms at a laundromat are about 5' x 7' or less.

[Kitty]

We've caught people having sex in the bathrooms some would probably try to point the camera to catch the action. There are tons of sickos around.

If an accident of some sort happened in the bathroom, wouldn't there have to be a fault of some sort? Wouldn't someone have to explain why they fell and be able to prove there was something unsightly, that the injured party was unable to see or determine that something could cause them harm or cause them to fall?

[pete f]

I had a guy slip and fall right in front of me once. I had put floor wax down and it was not quite dry, still slightly tacky. I told him that. He wanted to get a box of soap and he walked to the machine. Well, he hit a small pool that was wet and slipped.
His arm hurt. I got his name and address, told him to seek medical attention if he needed.
I called the ins the next day and gave them the info and my story.
I had not heard anything for awhile, I called the agent, he said the insurance company would investigate and take care of everything. I still have no idea of the outcome, my rates never went up much or anything. That was about 6 years ago. I stopped waxing the floor to make it shinny also..

Let the insuranace company deal with it from here, and do not have any contact with the person who fell.

[Fred50]

Kitty,

You can install a webcam in your bathroom and make a living off of it!

[Anonymous]

I can't understand why anyone would pay to watch someone else take a leak. That's sick. But you could reverse it.

A coin operated web cam in the BR, where you have to deposit coins to turn it OFF.

You could increase revenue by giving away free lemonaide.

[Andy]

Those are two concepts I didn't think of Mark and Superdave (previous two posts).

What I was thinking about doing was aiming one of the cameras outside the bathroom to look inside the bathroom when the door is open so you wouldn't see anything while the door was shut however, you would have a record of who goes in and out. I don't see anything wrong with that.

On a side-note about two years ago my attendant was cleaning the light lens in the bathroom when someone asked to use it, the attendant stepped out for the person. After seeing the person (a non customer of course) leave the bathroom he went back in to continue working, he found the sink literally ripped from the wall with the supply lines sraying water everywhere. He shut them off and jumped in his car to follow the nut who did this. He followed him all the way home got his address and a perfect description of his car and we called the cops. The guy admitted to the cops he said "I had alittle to much to drink and I do stupid things when I'm drunk" The cop asked me how much damage he did I figued $60/hour for my time plus materials. They escorted him back to the mat and he forked over $320.

[Fred50]

Two comments about bathrooms and insurance and other issues:

- Keep it locked or card access controlled to keep out non-customers. Let the attendant hold the keys. Sorry, I can't think of a good solution for non-attended, non-card mats.

This will keep it cleaner and keep more of the undesirables out.

- If you have the typical single use bathroom you can at least have a camera outside as stated before. You will at least know who the last person in the bathroom was before something happened.

The two issues that I hear the most about regarding bathrooms are vandalism and insurance claims. Most of the claims are along the lines of someone splashing water on the floor and faking a fall.

Unfortunately, I don't think there is any way to completely defend yourself, but every little bit helps.

[Kitty]

As a woman I have a real problem keeping anyone who needs a bathroom from a bathroom. Luckily for us the undesireables are few and far between. We have many people "stop" by to use the potty. We will continue to let those in need use one, and hope the undesireables will behave....

[JeffLange]

Everyone here seems to worry about everything. Just get enough insurance and forget about it.

[Fred50]

I don't know about you Jeff, but all of my insurance has deductibles. So, I look at door locks as a way of protecting deductibles.

If you don't do everything to mitigate your risks, you won't have insurance for long. Remember, insurance companies don't take kindly to paying out claims and you don't want to keep covering small claims out of your pocket.

Kitty,

On the bathroom note. I am a man and I don't want to keep anyone from using the bathroom either. However, none of us is in the business of providing bathroom facilities to the public.

If someone asks nicely, why not? Remember that there is a cost to keeping a bathroom clean and supplying it. In addition, I would guess it would be more likely that a non-customer would vandalize your bathroom.

I heard of a case the other day about a new mat that had $5K of damage in the bathroom the 1st week that they opened. It happened during business hours and the bathroom was open to the public. It appears that it was a nearby competitor and the camera system wasn't operational yet.


Jeff,

I don't believe in worrying, just being prepared so I don't have to worry!!

[Andy]

I have insurance and I don't worry I act as Mark said to mitigate my exposure. If you do not act to decrease your risk you doing yourself a disservice, you may not have insurance for long and you may not be in business long either.

[Kitty]

We have 3 stores insured and I think the annual premium is 2500? I will check tomorrow. What are the insurance rates for you guys? One building is covered in this premium and the rest of the store is content only.


You guys check insurance rates and workmans comp premiums and let see what the rates are around this board?

[JeffLange]

Mark,
What town was this store in nj? I lived in NJ for over 20 years before headin south.

[Fred50]

Jeff,

Why does that matter? Aren't you the guy that won't reveal where you are?

[JeffLange]

I am in NC. I was just curious considering the time I spent in NJ.
When I read your post it reminded me why I left NJ, I couldnt take those crazies anymore.
Good luck with your new store.

[pete f]

I think I am the only one here who actually names the town they live in.

Public bathrooms suck, it is the worst part of operating the business. You got to let everyone use it, you look like a jerk if you don't. Some of those who blaze in to use your bathroom are regualr customers, that is why they know you have a bathroom. When you stop them at the door you just lost $500 a year.


If you do enough volume, the money overcomes the problems.

Cameras, slips and falls, sex, who really cares. They are not going got invite you to see any of it anyway.

[Fred50]

Pete,

Another benefit of the card system. If they have a card, they will have access to my bathroom. Then again, you are right, money can solve a lot of problems!!

[Andy]

After after five years of zero liability claims, I have had two in one week, both slip and falls. Watch out, the gypsies are coming to your town next. I have since put a mat down in the bathroom.

[buddy]

I have rough concrete floor in the bathroom. You couldn't slip even if you wanted to.

[Anonymous]

Have any mat owners had a claim against them by a customer over a slip n fall incident?

I know there are plenty of con people out there trying to scam people all the time

[mike]

I had a slip & fall claim from a regular (though not "normal") customer

She managed to slip & fall on some spilled drink on the floor. (Spilled by her daughter, aged 30 ! a few minutes earlier)
No one had notified us of the spill.

We felt bad, she did break her arm, and had to have a cast.
We have medicare in Canada, so medical treatment is free.

She wanted a day paid from her "job" (she is always in at various hours, so I suspect she has no job.)
We gave her a $100. to go away. (after a week long negotiation, I just wanted to be rid of her !!)

Her daughter is still a customer :-(

[Kitty]

Several have tried..........

We have an incident report sheet in each mat in the event there is any type of issue.

Never has it gone anywhere, most insurance companies have detectives that will research any claims and many times any damage is minimal to a customer and negligence is never proved.

[Andy]

I had one scammer who went into my bathroom urinated on the floor, cut his forehead and rolled around in his own filth and said he fell and threatened me with a lawsuit. He said give me the name and phone number of your insur. co. and attorney. I said give me your number and I 'll have them call you. He did and my insur. co. saw thru his farce as well and never talked to him again. He pestered me for about two months I, barred him from the property. I heard from another customer that he did the same thing at Kmart. His wife called me and said he hasn't been able to work since falling, I said I knew he didn't have a job before the accident-she hung up; I guess I was right. Last I heard he was in the county lock-up.

[Winston]

Remind your attendants to ALWAYS use the Wet Floor signs for spills, or mopped areas. On rainy days put a Wet Floor sign at each entrance. What's your best defense for a legitimate slip and fall? Wet Floor signs were clearly visible, and the customer did not exercise proper care.

[Andy]

I also bought 24" diameter slippery when wet floor stickers so my signs are posted 24/7. I have one on each isle.

[Duane]

I have two 18" x 24" custom made signs (yellow and black) that indicte the floor may be wet and slippery at any time and appropriate slip resistance shoes should be worn.

If you check out my store video you can see them if you strain your eyes. One is located bottom left of the dryers, the other is next to my X-Changers.

When scrubbing the floor I put out two additional signs. One goes in front of the door and the other next to where I am cleaning.

[Buddy_Amoroso]

Slips and Falls are a part of our business. This is a good article concerning flip and falls in laundry rooms.

LANDLORD TENANT LAW BULLETIN:
www.quinlan.com
Citation: Baird v. NHP Mill Creek Apartments, 6th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, No. 02-1256 (2004)

The 6th U.S. Circuit has jurisdiction over Kentucky, Michigan, Ohio, and Tennessee.
Baird, a 16-year-old girl, lived in the Mill Creek Apartments with her mother and brother. The apartment complex had a laundry room with two washers and two dryers, all of which were supplied and maintained by Coinmach.

On Feb. 16, 1998, Baird went into the laundry room to switch some clothes she had in the washing machine into the dryer. Carrying a basket of wet clothes, Baird turned to walk from the washer to the dryer and slipped on what she claimed was a puddle. She alleged she had not seen the puddle before she fell. The water appeared to have come from a leak in one of the washers.

As a result of the fall, Baird was taken to a hospital emergency room. She claimed her injuries from the fall substantially limited her ability to engage in leisure and work activities, prompting her to file suit against Mill Creek and Coinmach for negligence.

The court granted judgment without a trial to Coinmach. It found Coinmach had no notice of the problem and was therefore not liable. The court also granted judgment without a trial to Mill Creek. In that case, it found not only did Mill Creek not have any notice of the problem, but the problem of water on the floor was open and obvious. The two machines were filled by top loading. No special circumstances required the user to walk through water to go from one machine to the next.

CASE NOTE:
Slippery laundry rooms have been the source of much litigation against landlords. Property managers should conduct routine inspections of laundry rooms, including checking for slip-proof surfaces on floors and repairing any leaks. Walk through the process of doing laundry to spot the most vulnerable areas.
Baird appealed the judgment for Mill Creek.
DECISION: Affirmed.

Mill Creek was not liable for Baird's injuries.
Under Michigan law, the four required elements for a negligence suit were duty, breach, injury, and proximate cause. Mill Creek agreed it owed a duty to Baird as a business owner to a business invitee since the laundry was a business within the apartment complex. Under that duty, if Mill Creek did not create the allegedly dangerous condition, then it had to have actual or constructive knowledge of it to have breached its duty.

Baird claimed Mill Creek had constructive knowledge of the leak because the building manager testified she had asked the custodian "to go over and make sure that the drain to the washer wasn't out of the wall, if it was to put it back in, if there was water on the floor to clean it up." Baird alleged that statement showed the building manager was aware of the condition.

However, the building manager testified she had not been aware of the puddle, it was not a recurring problem, and she had only told the custodian to check the washer as a suggestion, not because she thought the washer was indeed out of the wall. Since this was Baird's only evidence Mill Creek had constructive knowledge of the condition, the court ruled against her on this point.

Also, under Michigan law, even if a landlord had notice of a dangerous condition, the landlord was not negligent if the conditions were open and obvious, unless the condition was unreasonably dangerous. The test used to determine whether or not a condition was open and obvious was whether or not the average person of ordinary intelligence would have discovered the danger upon

[Laundry_king]

Does this happen a lot and what is the first thing that has to be done beside call an ambulance?

I have signs and tells customers kids not to run and play in the charts.